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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » F/X » » My system has a 7 band equalizer - is this what I use to reduce feedback? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

biff_g
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Is this how you "tune" your sound system to your location so that you can reduce or eliminate feedback? Is it difficult to do this? Basically I have a professional karaoke machine that has 7 sliders on it with different frequencies written on each one... I have no idea how to manipulate these to get better sound (if that's even what they are for?). Could someone please point me in the right direction? Thanks!
silverking
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Yes, this is how you would tune your sound system to reduce feedback.

Generally, you would start out flat, in other words, all faders zeroed in the middle.

Then you would SLOWLY turn up your microphone until you hear just the beginning of feedback.

Then you find the slider that, when moved downwards, makes the feedback go away....leave that slider where it was when the feedback stopped.

Now you can try it again, with the first slider in the new position.........turn your microphone up SLOWLY until you hear the first bit of ringing, and locate it on the appropriate slider, and move it down slightly until the feedback stops.

This can be a bit of an organic process in that what I've described to you is the mechanical method of using a graphic EQ. In reality, you will be listening with your ears as you make the adjustments to ensure that in the process of removing feeback, you don't remove all the life from the sound of your voice.

The more you EQ your sound system in the different rooms you play in, the easier it will get for you.
Once you coordinate what you hear with your ears with a specific fader on your EQ, it becomes much easier.

By the way, a sort of starting point for a lot of folks new to graphic EQ's is to remember that A440 on a piano is the same tone as 440HZ on your EQ......if your feedback sounds close to that tone, move to work with the fader closest to 440HZ, ....and on it goes for the different frequencies.
Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie
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Biff,
What Silverking has described is an excellent way to use a "graphic EQ" to reduce feedback, but;
1) A 7-band EQ is not suitable for the task. A graphic EQ with a MINIMUM of 15 bands/sliders is necessary. 31 bands/sliders would be much better, and a "notch" filter would be best. In the process of reducing feedback with a 7-band EQ, you would also seriously degrade the quality of your amplified voice.

2) The use of an EQ (no matter how elaborate it is) to reduce feedback without having excessive & adverse effect on the quality of the amplified voice, is not a skill that can be casually aquired. It requires a bunch of theatrical knowledge and tons of practice.

3) The effectiveness of any EQ to reduce feedback is minor when compared to the effective application of basic mic & speaker placement principles. Learn and apply these principles, and you'll be much better off.

Before someone mentions "feedback reducers", let me say that a feedback reducer is an automated notch filter, which I described as being the best EQ for feedback reduction. Feedback reducers can be great, when used properly, but are still NO MATCH for the effective application of basic mic & speaker placement principles.

For a great deal of free help with these principles;
http://www.MagicRoadie/Audio.html

Cheers from Toronto!
Dan
Dan McLean Jr
Regan
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'Nuff said! Good advice guys!

Regan
Mister Mystery
silverking
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I did hundreds of shows at the start of my career with only a 7 band EQ which I used to control feedback, tailor the vocals, and EQ the room all at the same time.

That a 7 band isn't suitable for your needs is only an opinion, don't give it any more weight than the opinion that says it's more than suitable for your needs.
Tony S
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Dan,
FYI - The speaker placement link on your website doesn't seem to work. I keep getting a Yahoo page that says the link doesn't exist. The rest of your site seems to work fine. Thanks for sharing so much great information with us.

Tony
We are all about as successful as we choose to be.



www.anthonysisti.com
biff_g
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Cool, thanks!
Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie
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Quote:
On 2006-01-25 15:07, Tony S wrote:
Dan,
FYI - The speaker placement link on your website doesn't seem to work. I keep getting a Yahoo page that says the link doesn't exist. The rest of your site seems to work fine. Thanks for sharing so much great information with us.

Tony

Thanks, Tony!
I posted it wrong/
http://www.magicroadie.com/audio.html
Dan McLean Jr
James Adamson
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The Ultimate Solution for feedback problems is to move the speakers farther from the source.

Notch Filter is next.

1/3 Octave EQ is the next in line.

As far as opinion of a 7 band EQ vs 1/3 Octave EQ there is no comparison if you are truly EQing a room. The 1/3 Octave will always provide better equalization.

James Adamson
http://www.seam2006.com
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
silverking
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Biff didn't ask if a 1/3 octave EQ would be better, he asked if the 7 band he already owned could be used to control feedback, to which the correct answer is a simple "yes".

I was giving Biff a specific answer to his question, not debating the value of 1/3 vs. 2/3 vs. 7 band EQ's.

There is, in fact, no debate......the question of which is better always answers itself.......because it's not about opinions, it's about math and physics.
James Adamson
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Silverking,

I agree he did not ask that.

A 7 Band EQ MAY(?) can control feedback but as Dan McLean said it is not suitable. Even if you could get the feedback controlled the frequency range of a seven band would change the other surrounding frequencies enough to degrade the sound. That is an inherent natural any any EQ. That is why you should always first and foremost move the speakers farther from the source.

After that the preferred method is a Notch Filter.

If anyone is not using an analyzer to EQ your system then you are just kidding yourself as far as equalization is concerned.

So the answer is a NO it is not suitable. Coming form a company that sells Pro Audio I am probably too close to the matter and have opinions that everyone may not have.

I am not trying to argue or criticize, just stating the facts as I see them.

James Adamson
http://www.seam2006.com
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
silverking
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I've pretty much said as much about 7 band EQ's as I can think of to say.

Peace.
biff_g
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Ok, then here is a naive question... in reality, what would I use the 7 band equalizer for? Is it something that the company just put on the system to make it look flashier?

Thanks!
James Adamson
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I would be inclined to say yes it is eye candy, but again I am looking at it with Pro Audio eyes. Everyone does not look at it that way. A large number of magicians use varies systems by Liberty, Passport, Yamaha, MiPro, etc., that have the same limitations when it comes to EQs & Feedback control. It meets their needs which is what is important to them.

I did not say you could not use it for feedback control or as an EQ, just that I feel it is not suitable to do the job correctly.

In the Personal Audio business which is where I got my start it was standard practice to put a small low price 30-60 watt Home Stereo complete package beside a 100-150 watt complete system that was almost twice as much or more in cost.

The 30-60 watt system was demo'ed first and the sound was fine to the customers ears. Next the 100-150 watt system was played with the same CD & music. The larger watt system always sounded better (better components, etc.). If you had the money you would buy the higher priced system. Because now you had a reference point to compare with. Right now in your situation you do not. The 30-60 watt system would actually be more than enough for home stereo usage, but the ear convinces you otherwise. The same is done with speakers. That is the reason that they are put in the same room.

But, again if you system meets you needs you do not need to get a better system. Again the key word is need.

If it works for you and you are happy with it, then do not worry about it too much. As silverking said opinions & needs are different.

James Adamson
http://www.seam2006.com
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie
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Quote:
On 2006-02-09 20:03, biff_g wrote:
Ok, then here is a naive question... in reality, what would I use the 7 band equalizer for? Is it something that the company just put on the system to make it look flashier?

Thanks!

Not naive at all, Biff! The differences of opinion you've seen here have to do with whether or not each of us thinks a 7-band is "suitable": That's the word on which we seem to be getting hung up. We have different opinions.

What we all are agreeing on, is that it is possible to reduce feedback with a 7-band. You can also use it to change the overall sound of your system, similar to using the bass & treble controls on your car stereo.

Silverking's first post in this thread, immediately following your inital question, outlines a method for using the EQ to reduce feedback. In my opinion, you should redeuce the level of only two EQ faders in this process (when using using a 7-band), but that's certainly up for grabs. The reason I say this is that I think you'll probably degrade the system's overall tonal quality if you try to use the graph any/much more than that.
Cheers from Toronto!
Dan McLean Jr
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