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JustinDavid Veteran user 370 Posts |
I'm an avid poker player, online and in real life.. and if me and my buds ever caught someone stealing, you wouldn't be able to talk about it the next day, and probly for the next few weeks. It's people like you guys (the cheaters) that give us magicians a bad name in certain circumstances.
People work hard for their money (most people), and some enjoy the thrill of gambling. Who are you to take that away? |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Anyone who plays poker for thrills deserves to lose. If they are cheated or not.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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halcon Loyal user 251 Posts |
Justin, I understand where you're coming from. however, you have further proved my point, about how the question is just twisted into a matter of morals and ethics. your post did nothing to answer the original question.
perhaps, everyone that is concerend in sharing morality and ethical issues on cheating, should start a new thread, where you can vent. Halcon |
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Mr. Z Special user 818 Posts |
I'm sure this "high brow" thread could be moved to the gambling forum.
Don't worry, though. You dolts aren't nearly as bad as the sad saps on the penguinmagic forums.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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halcon Loyal user 251 Posts |
LOL, M.Z.
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JustinDavid Veteran user 370 Posts |
My point is.. the original question doesn't deserved to be answered in the first place.
Anyone who has taken a college course in philosophy knows that there is no such thing as morality.. but majority makes their own morals... obviously. If while you were in the parking lot of the casino that you cheating the other fellow, and a thug held you up and stole your wallet.. does that make him right because he got away with it. Do you think he goes home to his buddies and laughs about the "challenge" of getting away with it? |
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halcon Loyal user 251 Posts |
So, why waste your time responding?
He probably does go home and brags to his buddies. You obviously, didn't grow up on the other side of the tracks with thugs. And before you think I havn't, let me answer you by saying I have and I have lost friends to jail and death. Halcon |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
In my opinion it is not a right or wrong issue with the card sharp. It is simply business. A sharp is only interested in what works and to get the money. No titles, no brag, easy going, do only what works.
One of my first professional shows was back in the 70's at the state street mall in Chicago. I was performing street magic with about 20 other performers. I was doing swindles both the three card monte and the shell game. I met a person that showed me some new shell and three card monte moves. At the time I thought he was a magician. He wore a very expensive suit. Later we went out to lunch and then we talked card work. I found out he was a card sharp. I showed him a run up of four aces and he said I did it like a magician. He said card sharps don't even take the time to learn how to run up 4 cards when 3 or most often 2 of a kind will get the money. He asked me how much I make as a magician and offered me a job to work salt and pepper with him. But I would have to lose the flashy way I used the moves. This is a true story. I went back to work on state street and I never saw him again. I told this story to my Dad when I went back to the magic shop and he said get used to it. When your good and you do this kind of performing material well and you perform out there in front of the public you meet all kinds of interesting people. Meetings like this are rare but it is like ships that pass in the night.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Craig Krisulevicz Special user Philadelphia, PA 647 Posts |
Hmmm....I see my post was deleted...I guess I hit some buttons?
Who is John Galt?
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JustinDavid Veteran user 370 Posts |
Bish that's a pretty awesome story.
halcon, yes I obviously didn't grow up with the thugs... I only grew up in jersey city, new jersey.. ive spent many a day in the projects (went to school behind them) so don't judge a book by its cover... and what does growing up in a dangerous neighborhood have ANYTHING to do with this? and yes I've lost friends too.. |
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halcon Loyal user 251 Posts |
Well, there you go then, you know that thugs often brag and laugh about their misdoings.
Halcon |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
It is said that thugs and small crime people do brag.
But most card sharps don't. Unless they are of the younger clan and members of on line forums.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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JonathanM Veteran user Jonathan 352 Posts |
For cheating in a poker game: My cousin knows this guy, who knows this other guy, who knows this casino dealer, who heard a story, of a cheater being held down on his back, a rat was put on his stomach, a metal bucket on top of the rat, bucket was heated, and the rat dug his way away from the heat.
But then again, I may have seen this in a movie - either way, I'm sure cheaters loose in the long run. |
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JustinDavid Veteran user 370 Posts |
Jonathan that's the sickest thing I've ever heard - man did it make my night.
In all seriousness.. you are 100% right.. As magicians, we are all dishonest in some ways, so maybe I'm being hypocritical, but when we are dishonest to harm others, even taking their money, it's just not right. |
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aznviet6uy Veteran user Santa Rosa, CA 315 Posts |
Cheating is cheating,
I cheat sometimes I'll admit it but never for money, ill cheat in games where my friends and I are playing for fun, never for profit, ill even tell them I'm cheating. Its a thrill trying to do some moves and win a couple of games while the other people know your cheating, but it is not a thrill to take away anyone's money through the art of magic and deciving people. Its not moral to do so, so I say to you "sodaman12" that you are a discrace to this art and if you really tired it in the real world, not only will you fail but you will also be punished in ways that you cannot even imagine. Sure you say 5-10 bucks and you say you can stop, that's what all druggies say. Gambling is an addiction, its pretty much the same thing as a drug, and if you continue to do so you should just stop posting on this site. It seems that you have enraged us all by doing so. You took something we all loved and you used it for your own personal gain. That is not right, and that is not what many of us want to see here. -Chris
shhh..... I see Magicians.....
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
If you maintain an attitude such as you have expressed, Chris, then you will not learn much about your craft of "faux" cheating from any real world card cheats. That is a shame. How do you think the people you learned from came by their knowledge?
Who did they learn from? Vernon, Marlo, Scarne and others were friends with many real card and dice cheats. Magicians may have different ethical standards than card and dice cheats, but we share an interest in many related things and can learn a lot from each other. We do, after all, share a love of cards and a fascination with the methods of the card cheat. Respecting the right of others to make choices that we know perfectly well are going to be bad ones is a necessity for mature discourse. You are welcome to give your opinion on what is or is not a good course of action, but you don't have the right to legislate for the forum--you should not be telling anyone that they are not welcome here, or that any particular point of view is unwelcome on this board. You are not speaking for me, nor for many others here. |
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aznviet6uy Veteran user Santa Rosa, CA 315 Posts |
Whit please re-read what I posted, I was commenting on the fact that he cheats for his own personal gain, because I admited that I do cheat to, I wasn't talking about the fact that you shouldn't do it to strengthen up your skills or for what ever other reasons may be, but when it comes down to doing it for one's own personal gain is what disgust me that was the main point I was trying to get at.
-Chris
shhh..... I see Magicians.....
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Well I sort of agree with Chris but I think he has his wires crossed. I think it is disgraceful for magicians to use the "Art" of magic to cheat except I do not think cheats use the "Art" of magic. In fact I do not think cheating is an "Art". I think cheats use techniques and magicians do not use the "Art", if there is any, of the cheat, only some of their techniques. Take for example a forger of paintings, he is not an Artist. I think us cheats kid ourselves that we are artists but some of us, are honest enough to admit we are just technicians.
Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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halcon Loyal user 251 Posts |
Anzviet / Chris
I re-read what you posted. Quote:
It seems that you have enraged us all by doing so. I have to agree with Whit. I personally am not enraged, what does unnerve me, as does Whit, is someone speaking for me. I went back and checked Sodman's posts. I didn't see anywhere he said he used magic. In fact, he said he was using ruses common to the cheat ( bottom dealing, peeking, riffle stacking ). that being said, I suppose one could say the magician stole the "techniques" used at the card table, and used them for entertainment. And, if anything the magician has disgraced the cheat by using their techniques, for other than it was intended for. Halcon |
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card cheat Elite user 426 Posts |
Ahhh, now THAT's more like it.
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