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CSStanton Loyal user Suttons Bay, MI 228 Posts |
Does anyone know how to do this right? I have tried drilling out the 'pips' of the 5, then putting pieces of screws in it. When they fit, I glue them in and use nail polish to re-make the dots.
Does anyone have a better idea? What do you use for weights? Thanks for the help -Casey |
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KingStardog Inner circle 2134 Posts |
Nope, you got it. Folks sure don't like to talk about this much. The big question is are you working on clear or solid colored dice?
Lead, slices of stainless steel wire, and sometimes lock tumbers are the weights. There are a couple widely used options. 1. Miss pipped magic 7/11 dice. (most common) These are described in the book "Beat 'em, cheat 'em and leave 'em, bleeding". 2. Home made miss pipped, where only part of a die is altered instead of the whole thing. 3. The solid color drilled and weighted. (the ones folks make at home) 4. Loaded see though/casino dice. (these go for a substantial amount of hard cash, should you be unlucky enough to meet someone who can/will make them) I believe the casino dice are a 5 year felony if found inside the casino, in play or not. 5. The last method is to use straight dice in a crooked game, like 31 or something similar.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
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Nir Dahan Inner circle Munich, Germany 1390 Posts |
I would add another type, which you can make at home as well. It is a beveled dice.
You use some sort of grinding or sanding method, (for instance using sandpaper or even a regular newspaper) to bevel the sides of the dice. This way the sides are not really in 90 degree angle to one another. This method can be used effectively (or more effectively) with the weights to make a dice that favors certain sides or numbers. The sanding doesn't have to be extreme. Think of casinos, each day people throw the dice a huge amount of times, if the dice favors (or unfavors) a certain side by just a small factor, it is already visible at the end of the day. This is good when we talk about large amounts of throws, but for the averege user it is of less help. regards Nir |
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wayman Special user England - Sunderland 589 Posts |
Use weighted INK
You can use this on Transparent dice. How? Mix Rutherfordium with white paint and paint your dots onto the dice. Name: Rutherfordium.......... Name: Lead Symbol: Rf...................... Symbol: Pb Atomic Number: 104........... Atomic Number: 82 Atomic Mass: (261.0) amu.... Atomic Mass: 207.2 amu More info here on Rutherfordium Apparently Rutherfordium is MUCH heavier than lead, and is almost impossible to detect. Or you can just drill your holes and use shotgun lead (from the shell), and then fill the hole back in with liquid plastic (epoxy resin. |
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Chris A. Inner circle AKA Chris A. 1123 Posts |
I remember reading in Scarnes guide to gambling that you need to remember an important thing when "loading" clear casino type dice. You must drill out all the holes filling in the non load holes with paint so that anyone looking through the clear die won't notice some holes drilled deeper than others.
AKA Chris A.
Keepin' the Funk Alive |
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KingStardog Inner circle 2134 Posts |
Wayman and Flip kind of put it together.
If you roll 'em within 4.7 seconds, that is.
...think not that all wisdom is in your school. You may have studied other paths,but, it is important to remember that no matter who you are or where you come from, there is always more to learn.
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CSStanton Loyal user Suttons Bay, MI 228 Posts |
Wicked good. I'll try to round up some Rutherfordium. Sounds undetectable. Yum.
Thanks for all the help. -Casey |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
What about chopped dice?
I'd like to find some to go with my chop/dice-stacking cups. Any info on making/acquiring those?
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Jonathan P. Inner circle Belgium 1484 Posts |
For the record, the opposite of weighted dice are the hollow dice. You have to cut 'em in half and hollow one half, so the other half will be heavier. Your job to make the cutting and re-sealing undetectable.
Good way to detect those crooked dice: put them in a cup of water. If it is always the same face which appears on top... Jonathan. |
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sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
Quote:
On 2002-11-25 21:29, CSStanton wrote: As Jonathan has noted, weighted dice are not "undetectable." In addition to the cup of water method, there are several other ways to quickly and reliably detect weighted dice. John Scarne's book, "Scarne on Dice" gives all the popular methods of gaffing dice, as well as the ways of detecting them. Needless to say, such gaffs are "for amusement purposes" only. Should you be caught in a real craps game or legal casino with these loaded babies, they could be a real health hazard . . . to your own health, that is! SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
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drwilson Inner circle Bar Harbor, ME 2191 Posts |
No one has yet mentioned the "whip cup." If you are using a dice cup there is a way to gaff the dice so that in combination with dice cup moves the dice will almost always roll a particular number. Some of the edges of the dice are not 90 degrees, there is an additional bevel to make them 45 degrees. One face on each die has 90 degree edges.
Since dice cups are not used in casinos, this is strictly an antique gambling scam demonstration. Anyone else familiar with this? Yours, Paul |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
I have a couple of Whip cups... great stuff.
Frank: You have to get WHITE solid color "drug store" dice and hollow 'em out. What size dice do you want and how many? I had all the crooked dice making equipment from the old defunct San Francisco Card Co., but sold it to a collector. However, I just found I still have some of the "weights" (little punched out pieces of heavy, thin, metal that they used to "load" dice. The stuff (machines) was pretty crude. A small drill press, thickness gauges, calipers, etc. But the SKILL of the workman is what made the difference.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
Paul, you are correct. A dice cup could be used to force a particular dice roll, if skillfully used. As you noted, this is why they aren't usually permitted in casinos!
In fact, it's my understanding that the biggest use of them (for cheating purposes) is in backgammon, where the dice cup is traditional anyway. Many people figure that the cup prevents a forced roll, but actually the reverse is true. A real dice cup will usually have a lip around the upper edge, which "trips" the dice on the way out and helps ensure a true roll. A gaffed cup usually doesn't have that lip, for obvious reasons. I believe it's also possible to do the same sort of "dice whip" move without a cup. Some people refer to it as "helicoptering" the dice, because they just rotate horizontally without spinning or rolling. This is why most craps tables in casinos have rubber backboards that the shooter is required to hit before the dice hit the table; the extra bounce ensures that the dice do actually roll and produce a random result. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-09-23 12:35, sethb wrote: "Sliding" is another term for this. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Friend of mine got cheated out of $4,000 at backgammon. Asked me for help. I sent him to a guy that gave him the "necessary" and he got his money back the next few games....
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Coincidently I'm working on a custom Whip Cup project for someone at this time. If anyone has any photos of a Whip Cup or info on the technique that they can share, please let me know.
Pete, I'll have to write you to find out more about these dice gaffing things you have/had. I'm interested. I've hand-crafted (does that mean I'm a craftsman) a chopped die on one occasion. I was quite pleased, however the "work" was completey visible. I did not take the time to cover my tracks. The covering would be more difficult but not too bad, I think. I did pip-drilling but completely by hand. No drill. Just a sharp bit and my grubby mitts. It was a start.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
You need to saw one in half, fill it, then glue it back together and figure out a way to hide the cut marks? Rough-line texture?
Wooden novelty dice with wood grain?
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Jonathan P. Inner circle Belgium 1484 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-09-23 12:52, Larry Davidson wrote: I don't think those expressions refer to the same thing. Sliding a die is making him rotate horizontally as it slides on table, without rolling. This one must be a "one die" move while another die is fairly rolling in order to cover the trickery. If not, it is obvious. Whipping a die is a true throw with the die really "flying" before landing. The art is to give him a rotational movement which preserves his vertical axis... even during the "landing" moment. Scarne (in "Scarne on Dice") mentioned people who can do that while throwing a die onto the floor... Jonathan. |
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Larry Davidson Inner circle Boynton Beach, FL 5270 Posts |
Hi Jonathan,
Seth said that "helicoptering" is a technique for making a die "...rotate horizontally without spinning or rolling...." You said that "sliding" is making a die "...rotate horizontally as it slides on table, without rolling...." I'm not sure that I understand the difference. Is it that with "helicoptering" the die "flies" before landing and with "sliding" the die doesn't "fly"? Larry D. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
I was taught this with a whip cup. You shake the cup horizontally in front of you rattling the dice, THEN you change the way you shake so the dice ROTATE around inside the cup and the way they are cut they TRIP and most of them (five in cup) wind up going it the same direction, number wise, let's say all ace surfaces toward the cup surface, sixes away.
Then you dump the dice out pulling the cup away and they all slide out but do not rotate or turn over, thus giving you up to five all the same. It is a percentage thing, but a very high percentage.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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