I know it is verboten on the forum to discuss mixing chemicals, making flash materials, etc....

But what I want to know is: is it considered acceptable to build your own flash pot?
The going rate seems to be $45 for something that isn't exactly a patented secret, and could likely be built from radio shack for $9.

Glow plug, batteries, pot, wiring, switch, sounds like a basic electronics project to me.

Has anyone done this? Am I out of line for asking? If so, I will ask mods to delete the post.

As a former roadie, I can (cautiously) affirm your assumption. Yes, you can make them.

And no, you shouldn't.


Regards,

-jjg

In my experience with building flash pots, I find the old method using the 2 points and the thin copper wire and a regular plug to outlet to be WAY more reliable then the battery operated glo plug versions. You of course need to wire it up to a switchboard rather than having to actually plug it in.

I have built both, and find that the glo plugs wear out very quickly and don't seem to take the wear and tear of the mini expolosions inside the can, and they seem to also corrode very quickly because of the leftover flash/smoke powder soot. Eventually they will stop working all together.

Also the glo plug versions are not always instant, meaning that when you hit the switch it actually takes a second or two for the glo plug to heat up to ignite the flash paper/cotton. Whereas with the standard model it is instant, great for timing with an effect, also you get that "Pop" sound and sparks with this version which makes it look and sound a little more impressive, rather than the slow, quiet and less visual glo plug version.

Just my opinions however.

P.

For more portable flash pots I have used a 9 volt battery and the old, single-use flash bulbs.

If you can’t find the individual bulbs some of the flash cubes can just be taken apart. Don’t try to use the “magic cubes” they have their own charge and will flash when you try to take them apart.

Some of the camera shops still carry them but keep your eye out at second hand stores and garage sales.

I would second Peter's findings on glow plugs versus AC. That being said, be extremely careful if you choose to do this.

I have worked with MANY flash devices over the years and have built most of them. There are good and bad ways to do it. Any flashpot that relies on a dead short AC powered ignition is usually reliable, but may prove to be your worst enemy. Fire Marshalls hate them. They often blow fuses and trip circuit breakers, especially in places with older wiring. They are dangerous. You have live power exposed at the terminals anytime the power is on to the flashpot. Too easy for an untrained person to get hurt.

Battery power and glowplugs are a lame alternative. They are unreliable and fragile. Batteries may test fine during rehearsal and be dead the next second. Same with glow plugs.

Here's the solution I came up with. I built a step-down transformer that takes 120 v AC in for a non-fluctuating power source, and sends out 12 v DC for safety. The power level is constant.

The flashpots are made exactly the same as a typical AC powered flashpot (two terminals in an insulator), but the ignition is provided by model rocket ignitors, and a flash cotton primer. They plug into the power board unit via phono plugs (same as your home stereo).

The board has two lights and a key switch to make it a bit more dummy proof. One light is on when the board is receiving AC power. When the key switch is turned on, a second light is on to let me know that power is now going out to the multiple terminals. Each terminal is activated by its own momentary contact (push button) switch. It was a Radio Shack project, but it didn't cost $9.00!

The only idiosyncrasy over copper wire and AC dead short is a half-second delay between firing and ignition. Timing is everything.

However... If the concerns about a professionally made flashpot, versus a home project are the difference between $9.00 and $45.00, that person probably doesn't need to play in this arena anyway. In this regard, saving money is a luxury for those that know what they are doing. This is a HIGH risk business.

~michael

I have built many flashpots throught the years. Years of playing in a rock 'n roll band taught me some things that come in handy for my magic shows too!

I agree with Peter Loughran about the glow plug. I like the old wire to wire squib system. I still make the ones I use, but since the Great White ordeal, I have almost eliminated fire from my shows.

I am not recommending building your own, mind you. In fact, I am not recommending that you use pyro period. It is a dangerous game, and whether you build your own or buy them, things can go wrong. If you build your own and don't know what you're doing, it escalates the danger level tremendously. Not only for fire, but also electric shock.

Be careful no matter what you decide to do!

Regan

Building flash pots is extremely easy. But here's the rub......to build them properly you'll need 1/4" wall thickness 5" iron pipe welded to at least a 1/4" thick and 8" square floor plate.
You'll then have to drill a squib hole through the pipe.

By the time you're finished making your two or three flashpots, you could have bought the Pyro-Pak manufactured flash pots for less money.

Have you ever tried cutting 1/4" steel, welding 1/4" steel, drilling 1/4" steel, and buying 1/4" X 5" pipe and 1/4" plate?

As for control and firing......you should use ONLY real squibs, not nichrome wire. And control should be with a double safety device, with a spring loaded key AND a momentary button for whatever pyro line you're firing.

Look....with all that's gone on recently it makes no sense to take anything other than a Pyro-Pak or equivalent system into a public place, use anything other than approved and pre-packaged pyro, and to have an experienced, and licensed pyrotechician involved in your show who will have contacted the local authority having jurisdiction (usually the fire dept.)

Anything else is just too dangerous.

A reminder that most jurisdictions DON"T view flash paper even remotely as a pyro device, so you're best bet may be to stick with the magician's classic flash device, regular old flash paper.

I use mini flash pots for small bursts, animal productions, etc. I made my pots out of copper pipe end caps with either a rocket squib bent up over and into the flash cotton. I also have used nickel wire because I can use it over and over and 3-4 ft can last for years. I have a not-so-old Abbott's pot and it fires off in a wooden block with a trough to hold the powder and two raw wire connectors.

After all, you didn't say how big a flash you wanted.

Good luck. And, remember, you are representing our entire community or trade.

I agree with all the above, but with one exception which was given to me by a local pyro expert (not to suggest methods here, only saying this for safety): Never use metal pipe for your flashpots. Always use a solid block of steel and have the hole drilled. The reason is this: Pipe always has a seam, which is the weak point. Flashpowder expands so rapidly that, sooner or later, the pipe can explode, and I know that my show wouldn't go so well if my first row of spectators have to go to the hospital for schrapnel removal!

Silverking brought up a good point. If your device is not UL approved and you have to get a fire permit to perform, it may never pass inspection anyway.

However, the only one I ever bought was not UL approved either, and the ones I made were safer than it was.

Regan

Thanks for all the input. As it happens, all I really want to do is remotely set off some flash PAPER, so it seems the flashpots we're discussing would be overkill.

As to the question of not being worthy of the endeavor since I mentioned saving some money, pardon the defensiveness, but sorry Michael, you were just a little more than condescending in your post.

I'm a DIY kind of guy. I would not try to make something outside my realm of possibility, nor rip off a copyright. I just like homebrew projects. This is why I was asking about the level of skill needed and propriety of making the hardware, to see whether I would be doing anything dangerous. Your tone was that anyone concerned with ever saving money should just be dismissed. I should have been more clear in my motivations for trying the home brew route. But I won't apologize for expressing cost concerns as one of many. What if I was talking about making 10? Would the cost savings have been justifiable then?

As I stated above, I really don't need pyro as such, I just had the flash pot option suggested to me as the simplest solution to a plain flash paper remote flash. I think a flash string as "fuse" to the paper will end up doing what I want, fitting the plot of the routine just fine, so I won't pursue the higher-end pyro possibilities.

You're confusing flash powder with concussion powder.

You're talking about a concussion pot, not a flash pot.

It's an important distinction between something that burns rapidly, and something that explodes.

Flashpots go "poof".......concussion pots go "bang".

Revlovejoy,

Perhaps I was a bit hasty with my tone, not knowing you personally. However, certain things raise a red flag with me. Talk of homebrew pyro raises a row of them. I have seen magicians set curtains on fire, their tables on fire, their apparatus on fire, themselves on fire, other show personnel on fire, and animals on fire. MOST magicians who dabble with pyro have no idea what they are doing. The only demographic I have seen that are more dangerous with it are garage bands.

I know someone who recently did a show using a bullet catch and a fire sequence. He was originally turned down by the venue on the fire, and was curious as to why that of the two. I reminded him if he screwed up the bullet catch, he might become a Darwin Award candidate. If he screwed up the fire act, he might be known as a mass murderer.

Regarding the level of skill needed and propriety of making the hardware, dangerous or not... with certain considerations, wiring up a flashpot is much like wiring a lamp. To quote jgravelle..."Yes, you can make them.
And no, you shouldn't."

Knowing how much force a flashpot and its surrounding elements can safely withstand is pretty scary when you think that trial and error contains the word "error".

Using them in public opens up an entirely new discussion. The problem with many acts that use pyro is that they tend to overlook certain fundamental things, like fire safety equipment and personnel. This now comes around to expense. Would or should that same concern for saving money apply to this, too?

I now understand that your intentions are not for higher-end pyro possibilities, but you certainly can't fault someone who believes they were reading the writing on the wall.

~michael

No problem Michael, and I completely see where you're coming from.

Saying "homebrew" and "pyro" together is like saying the word bomb in an airport. Understandably, there will be a response.

I have learned something from this thread: my pyro will be limited to flash paper and string.

Revlovejoy, remote ignightion of flash paper is quite possible. I do it all the time. It will have a cost of about $100.00 for the remote. Don't know your needs, but a wire with a very small foot switch is less costly, but I'm sure you will like the remote performance. You can e-mail me.
Dr. Solar