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Allan Olive
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Charlotte
180 Posts

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Hello all,

I did not quite know were to post this comment and figured that this would be just as good a thread as any. Please let me know if you feel it would be better placed somewhere else.

I have been involved in magic for some time. A few years ago I found a local IBM magic club. I was very excited to join and began attending. I had never been around other magicians and I looked forward to being around others with a similar interest. I envisioned an environment where I would show up and get to know some of the people, exchange some ideas, learn some new things and share some of the things I had learned.

What I found was nothing like that. There are some good people in out magic club and I am not putting any of them down. Maybe my expectations were too high. I have no other meetings or clubs to compare this one too.

Even in this club, which is small, everyone is secretive and too themselves. No one wants to share anything. Please understand that I not talking about swapping lecture notes and DVD's here. I am interested in learning moves and techniques. Maybe even knock around a few ideas for a new effect, or ways to improve an existing one. I would not mind showing some of the effects I know and then sharing the how-to with the group. Not major things, just some select things that I feel I have added a touch or two too. The same way it's done in a lecture, only on a much smaller scale.

If I could see some of this every meeting, I don't think I would ever miss one.

What are your meetings like. Do you share ideas? Am I wrong in thinking this way? Is that the way things are supposed to be?

Thanks
Byron
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13 Posts

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Don't know about IBM but my club is great. Just what you said, people sharing ideas, bouncing thing off each other, a safe place to make a mess of something new you want to try.

Find another group maybe?!
The hand may be quicker than the eye,
But the heart sees all!
Cory Gallupe
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Inner circle
Nova Scotia, Canada
1273 Posts

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Do you have a club website? I would like to see it. I go to ring 316. http://www.conjurerscourt.net and I love it. We are always joking around, very relaxed atmosphere, sharing secrets, moves, new ideas. It is very fun, and doesn't sound like yours at all. I think you just have an odd club. If YOU don't like it, then YOU should change it! Start making jokes, shraing ideas, teach the newbies a thing or two, tell people slieghts, then maybe with a little time they will be warmed up and more open to everything. Hope this helped. -Cory.
Al Angello
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Eternal Order
Collegeville, Pa. USA
11047 Posts

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Hi Allan
There is much competition in magic, and yes an unpenetratible good old boy network exists at the local club level. After being a member of my local club for over 15 years very few magicians know my name. In the past year I have met many real friends here at the magic Café that are always sending me cool tricks from all over the English speaking world. As a result of sharing magic with far away magicians I'm doing stuff no other local magician ever heard of. The Café is where I have found true friendship in magic. I suggest you find the topics you are interested in and people with similar interests will find you.
SAD BUT TRUE
Al Angello
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
RJE
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Inner circle
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Hey Allen,

Magicians are just people. Some are nice. Some are not. Sorry to hear that your experiences were not what they could be.

Although some of the larger clubs (ie. IBM Rings)may have a more inviting sense to them there does tend to be, as Al put it, an "old boys club" attitude. In some circumstances there can also be cliques, superiority attitudes, and jealousies. Other common dividers can be the full-timers vs. the part-timers and the pro's vs. the amateurs. And it goes on and on.

Over the years you get to expand your network of friends in the magic business. Not all will want to be your friend and there will probably be some who you don't want to be around much either.

What a lot of us do is to form informal magic clubs. Small groups of friends who get together weekly, monthly, whatever. Some meet in a coffee shop. Some meet in people's homes. Some meet where ever. In these situations, the exchange of information is far more open and more along the lines of what you're seeking.

Good luck on your search.

All the best,

Rob
BroDavid
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America’s North Coast, Ohio
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I have been in magic for over 25 years, and for most of that time, I was aware of the local IBM ring and attended a number of Ring Sponsored Lectures, and a few meetings, maybe one every two years.

I love magic, and love learning and teaching. WHy didn't I join the club?

The people were mostly pompous jerks. Rude, crude and thoroughly self involved. That was most of them, and although there were a few good guys, the others made the meetings more of a trial than anything that forwarded magic in any way.

A few years ago, I joined a local ring of the Fellowship of Christian Magicians, and the President of of that local group was also the President of the local IBM ring, and he kept telling me to try them again. He said they have changed.

Well he was right. I joined last year, (in truth, I joined mostly so I could go to teh IBM Intl Conference in Clevelnd) but in the year and a half I have been in the local ring, I found it a great group of folks who are friendly, knowledgeable, and having fun in magic. Most will appropriately, not give secrets to commerical effects, but if you need help with presentation, and technique, these folks are great.

The only bad part is that the monthly meeting have a lot of business to do. And I am a now a VP so I have to So I get tigether with a group of the club members, and a few other guys every Saturday, for several hours of pure magic sessioning and sharing.

If you got a bad group of folks, let them amuse themselves without you.
And find some folks who are more interested in magic than bieng jerks. They are really the majority, it is just that jerks are louder.

BroDavid
If you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything.
Al Angello
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Eternal Order
Collegeville, Pa. USA
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BroDavid
I had a lot of misgivings when I made my post, because I thought most people would call it blasphemy. I am quite pleasantly surprised to find other people who agree with me. In 1987 I joined the local jugglers club, and by 1989 I was president, a different breed of people. The friends I have met at the Café have more than made up for the pompus good old boys who don't talk to me at the SAM, and IBM, and after all I'm in it for the audience response not the other magicians.
THANKS
Al Angello
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
BAH1313
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Ohio
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Well, welcome to the world of Magic Clubs. I too have had similar experiences and it only gets better if you say something to an officer. I once let a couple of them have it after having been rudely treated at a couple of meetings.(I'm not one to keep my mouth shut when treated like crap.)
The great thing that come from it is that I am a part of a group that has no officers, no dues, and no format. Just a bunch of fellers getting together every Tuesday night and jamming. It is phenominal!!! PM me and I would be happy to give you the number of the fellaer that started the whole thing. He's an awesome guy. He started the thing because of so many people coming in to his shop and complaining about how they were treated at the other club. Now it's about 30-40 members strong and we love it!
Also, more importantly, the other club has really warmed up to other people, and I can tell you for sure that they have redeemed themselves completely to me. Ever since I told certain officers that I didn't like the way I was treated , they actually made an effort to be more welcoming the next time I walked in, now I think the whole club is much nicer to other people. I'd like to think that I and the others who started their own thing ahd something to do with that. Maybe you should just talk to them. You never know, they may be as freaked out by you as you are them!
Who knows, you may make some great friends!
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
Allan Olive
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Charlotte
180 Posts

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Hey guys. Thanks for all of the input. Let me clear up one point. The guys at my local club are a great bunch of guys. No one there has treated me rudely or acted like a jerk towards me.

My main issue with the club is that there is no exchange of ideas. It's not much of a teaching environment. When it comes to practical experience and sharing your knowledge to help other magicians grow in their craft, most everyone there keeps to themselves.

I agree with magicaian101. If I want the club to be better than I have to try to take steps to try to make it better. I am looking forward to our next meeting. I plan on performing and sharing some of the things I have learned from the other meeting.

As far as joining another club, there are no other clubs for me to join. Besides, I pastor a church here in my area, and I want to treat my club the way I expect others to treat my church. Don't just up and leave if everything does not go your way, make it better. Try to find ways to improve it.

Magician101, I will PM you the Rings web address.

Al, the Magic Café has been my best magic find. I come here most every day. It is a real pleasure to find people with similar interest and passions that you have.
BAH1313
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Ohio
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Allen, you seem like a true gentleman! It's refreshing.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
Al Angello
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Eternal Order
Collegeville, Pa. USA
11047 Posts

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Allen
A year age I bought "stargazer" by Alan Wong, and I couldn't understand the instructions, so I posted here at the Café for help, within hours a kind gentlemen from the Phillipines Dr. Ronnie Moraleta walked me through the instructions. Doc Ronnie lives on the other side of the world, and probibly got out of bed to help me. People like him can only be found at the magic Café.
Al Angello
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com
http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/
"Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone"
Cory Gallupe
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Inner circle
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Ya, its nice to have such a helpful place like that of the Café!
Steven True
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Bonney Lake,WA
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Back in the 70's I joined a local SAM in California, I won't say which one because I don't want them to take offense. I had a hard time getting in with the "In Crowd" at the meetings. It seemed like most of the memebers did not share very much help either. Never really did figure out why but went anyway. I worked my way up to secratary of the assembly and found out that there was so much business going on during the meetings that it left very little time to share anything with anybody. There were lots of pro's in the club and I thought that I would learn so much that my head would exploade with information. Sadly it did not..well maybe not sadly, I do still have my head. I think that some of the magic clubs become so stale not because of the clique's or the "Good Old Boy" way, but they just get tied up with so much business. Not sure if I am makeing sense, but sometimes it is hard to really put your finger on a problem in the clubs. Maybe we start going to them hopeing that the memebers will teach us everything they know, every move, slight, trick, ect. I know I started going to the one in California with that in my mind. I did learn a lot over time at the club and was helped by some of the memebers. I learned more from a few people that after the meetings we would go to a local resturant and have coffee until very late into the night, sort of what RJE did. So I guess what I am trying to say is that maybe we are looking for to much to soon from the memebers of the clubs. We need to give them time to get to know us and then see what happens.
Never thought I would write so much here but I do have a problem saying a lot with just a few words. Maybe that is why I did a silent act for so long. Just my thoughts on the subject.

Thanks

Steven
Steven True
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Bonney Lake,WA
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Sorry guys me again. I forgot to say that since I found the magic Café' I have learned so much and that it is the greatest club going, anywhere on the planet, IMO.

Steven
Cory Gallupe
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Inner circle
Nova Scotia, Canada
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Well, it certainly is the best on line magic forum I know of.
That stinks that your guys' clubs werent what you expected. Not much sharing, etc.
My club is fantastic! We have a great time. I just wish that we met more often, or at least at a different time. Monday night from 6- like 9 isn't very good for me. I wish it was like on a saturday or friday.
rmoraleta
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Philippines
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Quote:
On 2006-02-02 20:07, Al Angello wrote:
Allen
A year age I bought "stargazer" by Alan Wong, and I couldn't understand the instructions, so I posted here at the Café for help, within hours a kind gentlemen from the Phillipines Dr. Ronnie Moraleta walked me through the instructions. Doc Ronnie lives on the other side of the world, and probibly got out of bed to help me. People like him can only be found at the magic Café.
Al Angello


Thanks for remembering me Al!

I used to be the President of IBM Ring 322 - The Magicians Foundation, Inc. We have lectures, games, raffles, competitions,charity and public shows and many more activities, which I know the other IBM Rings are also doing.

I noticed that if you join a club, you learn much faster and the right way. You'll learn other magicians' experience in the business. Just ask politely.
Necromancer
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Chicago
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I certainly try to keep an atmosphere of helpfulness and good will at SAM#3. If you were in Chicago, I'd invite you over!

(To anybody else who IS in Chicago, feel free to stop on by. Info is at http://www.MagicalChicago.com)

Best,
Neil
Creator of The Xpert (20 PAGES of reviews!) and the Hands-Off Multiple ESP System ("Quality and design far exceed any ESP cards on the market"-Genii), both at Penguin.
Allan Olive
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Charlotte
180 Posts

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Thanks again for all of the tips and comments guys.

Steven - I have been a member of this club for over two years, (This ring has been going for over 34 years)and it't been the same this whole time. You are right about one thing, the business side of the meetings are often longer than the rest of the meeting.

On a lighter note, my friend and I both performed last night at our monthly meeting. This was my attempt to make the meetings better. I also wrote our ring president a letter and offered to help in anyway I could.

The Magic Café is by far the best thing that has happend to me with my magic. Like many of you, I have had more help from members online here than anyhwere else. And best of all it's always open.
Cory Gallupe
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Nova Scotia, Canada
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That's good to hear. Im glad that you took the opportunity to make your ring a little better. Good luck, -Cory.
Bill Palmer
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Eternal Order
Only Jonathan Townsend has more than
24210 Posts

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I've been a member of our local clubs for a long time. I dropped out for a while due to some family problems, but rejoined a few years ago. I kept my national and international memberships active, though.

Clubs go through changes. Some clubs will have a board of directors that just want everyone to show up once a month. Others will have active programs. The best way you can influence your club is to run for office. Run for vice president. They usually are also the program chair, and this will give you a chance to do something.

We have mini lectures at each meeting. They can be on any subject related to magic. Another idea is themed meetings -- silk magic, rope magic, mentalism, you get the drift.

One that we have had great response to is "challenge magic." People bring objects or ideas, and someone tries to figure out how to use them or solve the problem.

Last meeting, I offered a $10.00 prize to the person who came up with the best completely original revelation of a playing card. We had a tie, so I shelled out $20.00. But it was worth every cent. We actually had some great thinking.

One of my favorite "pump primers" is this: ask the membership to come up with ten completely original ways of revealing a selected card. Not methods now, just the effect. Then you discuss how to do them.

The one that came closest to stumping me was "Okay. You have a card selected, and you find it in the belly of a fire-breathing dragon."

I said, "Bring the dragon, and I'll do the trick!"

But do anything to liven things up.

In Fort Worth, they set up Special Interest Groups that met on a monthly basis. This helped as well.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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