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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Sal Piacente's new DVD: Poker Cheats Exposed (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Dowser
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[/quote]

Ya. Skill wouldn't hurt though, would it?
[/quote]

My old university basketball coach couldn't drive the lane to save his life...but I would never question the value of what he had to teach me . I knew that he had ten times more experience , understanding , and knowledge than any of the players who still made a career of playing . Any player who didn't learn a play because they couldn't get past the coach's lackluster
demonstration would sorely have missed the point....I believe that is what is happening here in regards to the discussion of Charlie's handling of a hold out move.
Mr. Z
Your jibe at Mook , although made in fun I'm sure , seems a bit spurious...especially since this thread was intended to discuss the merits of Sals DVD and you chose the oppurtunity to plug David Maleks DVD . Does this make you David's biggest fan?
Dowser
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I just want to say that reading this particular thread was fun...thank you and I also want to thank ya'll for not taking my comment as being stuck-up and conceited; I was just making a point.

Meijin I like how you speak and no matter what..."I stand by my statement." That's some powerful talking and boy-oh-boy I love you for it.

Quote:
On 2006-02-14 18:16, DerekS wrote:
Meijin,
You stated "So, the move in question would work in your game. What, exactly, does that prove?" Well, that means the money comes home with me. Again, with cheating this is THE POINT. If you get the money, then what else matters? This is all I'm trying to tell you. This man Charlie used a move that worked in his games. Do you think he cares that others might think it looks bad? Your criticism on the move is welcome, and you justified it. I understand it isn't a move you would employ, but you should understand that he used it because it did indeed work over and over


For the record we gamblers may can do a pass/hop 5 different ways but for our life we will only do a particular variant. You may do an ugly move that I don't like and it gets the money every time you do it but I won't because I'm uncomfortable doing it.

Bottom line I said that to say this, maybe that particular variant is all Charlie knows how to do. Us cheats are not exposed to magicians like yourselves who can help us perfect our moves like ya'll are helping me so these guys go out into the world with ugly moves that were taught to them by some other hustler and they think that they are doing the move great.

I told ya'll how I was deceived by the magician's writing gambling books etc. and when I went into the world of gamblers I found out exactly what Meijin is trying to explain to ya'll without trying to be too critical but still being honest; these guys are horrible. Some of them have their specialty but their other moves are wanting….

Doc why are they horrible? BECAUSE YA'LL WAS NOT THEIR TEACHERS.

Doc why are you an exception? BECAUSE YA'LL WERE MY TEACHERS AND STILL IS AND I'M PROUD TO LET THE WORLD KNOW IT.

Ya'll magicians are very critical analyzing everything and this is what made me what I am today. As a magician (I used to be) I couldn't come before my teachers doing garbage moves because I was sent back home to practice that move until I had it; ya'll didn't take any shorts and I’m glad you didn’t. This is how ya'll trained me while making me think and work out things. For the record, I love ya'll for that and that extra push. Thanks.

I Shouldn’t Say This But I Will

In my heart I feel that even though I was amongst the Best Of The Best and ONLY STEVE FORTE BEAT ME OUT to me magician’s such as Darwin O., Andrew W., Damien N., Jason E., Paul W., Richard T., Allen A. Ross B., Glenn B., Gene M., Wesley J., Ian K., Jeff W., Dennis B., and Igor and my student Andrei are the real cheats that I look up to. Craig you’re up and coming.

For the Record and don’t get me wrong on this…I’m not taking anything away from Sal P. and Rod the H. because we all have our specialties and even though they are getting groomed by the master himself over all the above named magicians really need to be patted on their back for their achievement(s) in this area. My hat goes off to them.

I guess I’ll get some slack about this later on (I ****ed some people off) in the near future but I was great before I met anyone and will continue to get better especially with the help of ya’ll here magicians and…if the Lord is willing.

Again, thanks for not taking my previous post the wrong way.

Respectfully,

Signed

The Doctor

P.S. Meijin “My Statement Still Stand” is only suppose to better the individual not belittle them and as I see it you’re uplifting Sal’s video but pointing out things that particular individuals need help in and there is nothing wrong with that.

Friends Never Lie To Friends.
J0ma
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Allrighty noww.. Just a stupid(?) question.. Where to get this DVD? Or is it not released in public? Smile
Magic Is Life
mook
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Mr. Z
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Quote:
On 2006-02-15 04:17, The Dowser wrote:
Mr. Z
Your jibe at Mook , although made in fun I'm sure , seems a bit spurious...especially since this thread was intended to discuss the merits of Sals DVD and you chose the oppurtunity to plug David Maleks DVD . Does this make you David's biggest fan?
Dowser


Someone poo-pooed Malek's DVD earlier in the thread, so I felt the need to throw my .02 in.

I'm a fan of both Malek and Sal, and have been friends with them for years.

How do you like them apples? Smile
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
Jason Simonds
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How would this dvd be for a beginner/intermediate card guy who's interested in cheating routines?

Thanks!
Paul H
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I realise this thread is devoted to Sal's new DVD and what I am about to say is off topic. However, I do think a slightly different perspective on cheating is in order here. Interestingly, Doc's top of the pops list is composed mainly of magicians who do not cheat and rely on sleight of hand in there performances. From a magicians point of view, these gambling demo DVD's are invaluable because they show how to execute gambling moves at a high level of expertise. They provide a repertiore of moves that can be incorporated into a variety of gambling themed demonstrations which amaze and entertain.

Cheating is a different kettle of fish. Its a world of complicated variables. You need to choose the type of game you wish to cheat in. Then the environment has to be researched with questions like, is this a loose private game, what are the guys playing in such a game like etc, what are the house rules? Is there a professional dealer/s, when are they rotated, how long is a deck of card kept in play before its replaced by a new deck, is there camera security etc. Once a game is scouted out in this fashion the cheat would need to decide which tools would best suit the job in hand. In my opinion, sleight of hand is likely to be a lesser choice in this regard and other gimmicks such as the use of paper etc might be less risky. There is also the possibility of working with a partner which opens up some excellent strategies for peeking and collusion play that is almost impossible to detect.

I'm sure sleight of hand does have a place in cheating with some types of games but I suspect it is more limited than we magicians like to think. Here is a quote from a book on Card Sharping....

"The low class sharp relies almost entirely upon forms of sleight of hand to deceive.....there are some tricks and dodges which are practiced by even high class cheats. The rule is however, that sleight of hand is to a great extent obsolete; at least among those who seek to swindle really good card-players."

Can anyone guess the book and when it was printed?

Regards,

Paul H
in flames
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Hey guys,

Does anyone know anyone else that carries this DVD? Sal's site doesn't ship to Canada.

I appreciate it!
Steve V
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I've a question. Was Sals dvd shot in surround sound using the IMAX technology? I wonder only because some seem to think it 'blows away' the quality of production in the Malek DVD. At best one can say it is at the same level of quality but to blow it away? Sorry, that isn't likely. Another thing, from what I read (sorry, I've seen Sals work before, I'm not rushing out to buy any more) this dvd instructs on how to do the moves used by some to cheat or that can be used in a demo. Maleks work is for the avid player to become aware of the methods used in cheating, it isn't a 'how to' project. If you want to learn moves don't go with the Malek, get Sals I guess or perhaps Weapons of the Card Shark. Lastly I wouldn't bet that Sal would claim to even remotely have the skills of Malek.
Steve V
BAH1313
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Sal's DVD is meant to help those playing the game be more aware of the methods used to cheat. In casinos and more likely private games.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
Steve V
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Okay, and folks who have seen both Sals and Maleks believe Sals to be far away superior? Difficult to believe that could be the case.
Steve V
BAH1313
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Ever seen Sal's DVD? Alright then, maybe you should watch it. Then form an opinion. Personally, I think Maleks stuff is okay but I like Sal's better. You see, I'm able to form this opinion (personally) because I've seen both.
The the whole point here is to talk about what we've seen, and then give our opinion. Not to just say... "I've seen Malek's stuff and it's better blah, blah, blah." Especially when you havent seen Sal's newest endeavor.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
Steve V
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I'm sorry, please clip and paste where I formed an opinion about Sals poker video. I believe I asked if it was instructional or informational and that was about it. I did question if the quality of the production, meaning the filming, editing, and sound, really 'blows away' the Malek work. I think this was asked clearly enough. You see, considering the extremely high production levels of Maleks work someone claiming it was blown away means one of two things, either the individual making the statement doesn't know what he is refering to or the rest of the statements concerning the product are also to be questioned. I've seen reviews here written as if they were reading back the ads.

Here is a simple question for you Bah. Does Sal introduce methods of how decks are marked that are not addressed by Malek? Does Sal have brave new forms of glimpsing? Are his shiners shinier? Or is it that Sal is better known amongst the magical masses than Malek is and thus has a larger following where as Malek has never pursued such a following? Lastly The Doctor has listed a number of very talented cardmen, to imply they all have ever cheated isn't correct nor fair to these gentlemen and it is missing some folks.
Steve V
BAH1313
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Not to argue the Docs listed cardmen. That's not the point. They are all great in they're own right. But if it's copying and pating you want, you wrote:


"Another thing, from what I read (sorry, I've seen Sals work before, I'm not rushing out to buy any more) this dvd instructs on how to do the moves used by some to cheat or that can be used in a demo. Maleks work is for the avid player to become aware of the methods used in cheating, it isn't a 'how to' project. If you want to learn moves don't go with the Malek, get Sals I guess or perhaps Weapons of the Card Shark. Lastly I wouldn't bet that Sal would claim to even remotely have the skills of Malek."


I pretty much take that as your opinion.That's what I was commenting on.
Now, for what Sal covers in his DVD compared to Malek's maybe you should buy it and find out for yourself. Obviously, you already have an opinion, now all you need is the basis on which to form it.
I am truly blessed to have a job where people are laughing all the time and everyone believes in magic....Come to think of it, I'm blessed to even have a job.
Steve V
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Actually that was a question because some of the 'reviewers' commented on how the instruction was on the video. If it was instructional it would be a different style than Maleks which is informational. This isn't rocket science. As for the statement that Malek is a superior card worker I would say that there is the potential that Forte may be, or may not be, better than Malek at gambling moves, I don't think that question will be answered. I would think that if you asked Sal, regardless of his abilities, he would tip his hat to Malek. Since Sals DVD is informational and I doubt he shows marked cards or how to detect them in any way different than Malek then it would be a waste of money now wouldn't it? The same way other than a true cheat fanatic would get Maleks if they have Sals (Maleks is a three DVD collection by the way, I'm assuming Sal will have four).

Now I ask for the last time. Will someone who has seen both DVD's actually tell me HOW Sals is superior in production value. As a side note for you Salianics I found the production level on the Monte dvd to be very high. Thanks! Oh, for those who want instructional look into Weapons of the Card Shark.
Steve V
bishthemagish
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Is there promo video or a demo of this Sal Piacente DVD?
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
mook
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Quote:
On 2006-02-16 22:52, Steve V wrote:
This isn't rocket science.


I definitely agree on that.
mook
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Quote:
On 2006-02-16 17:39, BAH1313 wrote:
The the whole point here is to talk about what we've seen, and then give our opinion. Not to just say... "I've seen Malek's stuff and it's better blah, blah, blah." Especially when you havent seen Sal's newest endeavor.


Absolutely HAVE to agree with that.
mook
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Quote:
On 2006-02-16 22:52, Steve V wrote:
(Maleks is a three DVD collection by the way, I'm assuming Sal will have four).


See now there's the problem: when you ASSume, you make an a** out of yourself.

Sal's DVD is a 2-disc set. A COMPLETE program that is 2-1/2 hours long. I doubt he even needs to come up with more than that. The menu is:

Disc 1
1. False Shuffles
2. Stacking
3. Beating the Cut
4. Peeking
5. False Deals

Disc 2
6. Location Play
7. Palming
8. Signaling
9. Marked Cards
10. Bonus Features

A. The Cooler/Cold Deck
B. Holdouts
C. Shiners
D. Chip Copping

For the production value, I'm no Hollywood production expert, but the sound and music are good. There are motion graphics identifying the moves and showing definitions of terms that beginners might not be familiar with.

I have seen Malek's DVD. As far as being instructional, Sal's DVD is in the same spirit. He goes through the moves, not to teach (although you could learn from it), but says that "the best protection is knowing how the moves are done." He said his intention is to help poker players protect themselves. (Don't know if you know this, but casinos hire him for his game protection seminars.)
mook
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Quote:
On 2006-02-16 22:52, Steve V wrote:
As for the statement that Malek is a superior card worker I would say that there is the potential that Forte may be, or may not be, better than Malek at gambling moves, I don't think that question will be answered.


I and numerous others (including Malek himself) can absolutely answer that question: Steve Forte is absolutely superior. No question, no debate. Ask Malek himself and he'll tell you that he went to Forte, himself, for help with his DVDs.
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