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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts |
Hi all,
Though you might like a read. It is a theory book/pdf contemplating the future of magic. http://www.mattmagic.co.uk/Theory.htm Regards, Matt |
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EvanSparts Veteran user Michigan 333 Posts |
I read your essay and there are points I agree with and points that I disagree with.
You say that this new approach is like saying look what I have found out not look what I can do. I feel this takes away from our magical "powers" and makes it sound as if it is a puzzel or intriging discoverey. I see a problem with this concept when you talked about the frech drop. You said that the magnet causes the coin to pass through the hand. Now this may just be me but this I feel takes away from our ability as magicians to cause it to happen and gives the credit to the magnet. If then what you say is true the magnet causes it the spectator should then in theory be able to put the coin in their own hand and use the magnet to make it go through and if they ask to try and cant do it or you say they cant try they know what your saying is not true. Then it becomes a puzzel of well how is he doing it then. I do however agree that magic is changing and any weird props cause automatic suspicion, and the presentaion for your foucus card does seem believeable from a laymens point of view. Overall I don't like the idea of demonstarting properties of things, I just don't like that presentaion for things but to each his own and it was a nice little read. |
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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts |
Hey Evan,
Firstly, thanks for taking the time to read the text and make constructive comments. I agree that the theory, put into practise, lends itself to becoming a puzzle. However I would add, tricks posing explicitly as ‘magic’, if not performed well, can fall into the same trap. Would you not agree? Performance is also essential within invisible-magic. The spectator should be sufficiently convinced that only you, the magician, have the power/ability to perform the demonstration(s). In a similar way, we accept plastic surgeons can change the shape of someone’s face but also accept we could in no way replicate it. The mystery and/or magic lies in the fact that you have found and can demonstrate these properties. In practice the layman does not know how to ‘activate’ the magnet. I personally believe it is increasingly difficult to expect spectators to believe in magic (in the typical sense of the word*) or convince them of it. Having said this, if you feel you can achieve the above and see it as your way forward I see no reason why you should change. Once again I thank you for appreciating the text in the way it was intended, a nice little read. If you feel you have any further contributions I would be very glad to hear. Matt *magic (IMAGINARY POWER) noun [U] 1 the use of special powers to make things happen which would usually be impossible. |
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EvanSparts Veteran user Michigan 333 Posts |
I definitely see where your coming from. I also agree that magic done poorly can be a puzzel. I admire your trying to make the art better, I just think the french drop example was flawed a little, but its cool that your trying a new presentational angle, magic needs that to stay fresh.
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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts |
I imagine even the best performers are asked, ‘how did you do that?’, and to me it poses a problem.
For a spectator to ask such a question is implicitly suggests that they do not accept it to be magic. If they believe what they have just seen to be magic, why ask how it was achieved. I appreciate that in many cases it may be a ‘knee-jerk’ reaction to the incredible happening. But still, in no other form of art is the first reaction one so closely linked to the methods used. In most other art forms people can be amazed, moved, upset, and informed without ever questioning how or why. I guess that is what the theory tries to amend. Setting up a performance that allows people to be amazed without feeling the need to even think about how it happened. I could not agree more with the sentiment that magic needs to stay fresh. I also agree with the potential flaws in the French Drop idea, however as I am sure you are aware, it was only used to exemplify the theory in practice. Matt |
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EvanSparts Veteran user Michigan 333 Posts |
I do think we are on the same page, that's why when a spectator asks how did you do that I never respond with a canned line or smart remark. This is why I try to present my magic in such a way that it avoids that question but unfortunately that is sometime unavoidable.
Your on the right path nice work. |
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Bill Hallahan Inner circle New Hampshire 3222 Posts |
For a great discussion of Unity, Consistency, Justification, Surprise and Repetition, and much more related to the presentation of magic, read the book, Our Magic by Maskelyne and Devant. However, it's not light reading.
Humans make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to create boredom. Quite astonishing.
- The character of ‘Death’ in the movie "Hogswatch" |
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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts |
Hey,
Thanks for the information Bill; I am keen to expand my magic library. If anyone else can think of relevant theory texts, let me know. Regards, Matt |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I like the basic premise, though feel we should avoid any discussion of novelty at this time.
It helps to read folks like Robert-Houdin and some about Karl Germain and others who traveled the path long ago and wrote of what they found and their choices. Robert-Houdin introduced ether on stage to offer some plausible agency for what we now call the aerial broom suspension. He was thinking about many of these issues at the time. As was Hofzinser. By the time of Charles Bertram much of the dust had settled and magic was moved to story-land and dreams, IE symbolic space. Magic as OOPAs and such has been around in literature for a good fifty years. Consider the Strugatski brothers story 'Roadside Picnic' as a good example of this premise used to dramatic effect. As to new or novel... perhaps for you. When you've read more of our history you will have some perspective to look again at your work as it was when you first wrote it down.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts |
Hi Jonathan,
Firstly let me make this perfectly clear, any reference to my text being ‘new’ refers to its youth. It is in no way a complete text; it is still in an infant state and shall no doubt grow and change the more I read. The text was written part to clarify my personal goals in magic and part as a reaction to the current state of magic (as I perceive it). Something that I am very keen to do is read much more to develop my theoretical understanding of magic. Finally (and please feel free to correct using actual examples), most other arts have change drastically in 50 years (film certainly has) but to my mind magic has not. Matt |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Magic itself is unlikely to change, ever.
What people see as magical is context dependant. And agreed that many in our community are far from being "modern" conjurers, instead lost in nostalgia.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts |
Jonathon,
Do you not see my text to be addressing the context and possibly bringing it more up-to-date? Matt |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
What happens when childhood fantasies and adolescent reactions to the world and mature into an adult viewpoint?
We can get to Neil Gaiman, JKRowling and Philip K. Dick type situations if we try. Or we can wallow in where we are. Where do you want to go today? What is the context of your magic? If your text has value to you... good. Please check the grammar against the contents of The Structure of Magic Volume I by Bandler and Grinder. More to my point in this paragraph, the Milton Model is a good tool to enhance the clarity of one's vision in one's textual expression. What is the context of your persona?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Salem New user 16 Posts |
Matt,
Thanks for taking the time for writing your essay and sharing it. Parts of it have me confused however. When you say: "the primary goal of Invisible-Magic is to take ‘the ordinary’, ‘the normal’, ‘the everyday’, and make ‘it’ do impossible things. Introducing uncommon elements (tubes, silks, monstrous wooden contraptions painted with a clown motif) will naturally be greeted with preconceived conclusions. Modern magic needs to present itself as ‘the discovery and presentation of new properties within common objects’ as opposed to ‘the presentation of unsurprising properties within atypical objects’" Then you introduce a rare earth magnet. Doesn't this seem contredictory? Presenting an innocent object as a scapegoat is, of course, common in magic: the wand, the lighter, the pen. They provide an "excuse" for why the magic is happening, but the spectator doesn't really believe these things. Are you proposing that we provide better lies for why things happen? You also quote the cups and balls as an example of "good magic". I'm always amazed when magicians argue against gaudy props, but then use the cups and balls as an example of simplicity and perfection. I love the cups and balls and think they are one of the best effects in magic (if not the best). But they are props that can't be called everyday objects. Unless you are using coffee cups, or dixie cups, or jiggers, but in my mind the effect is lessened. I have no idea, but sometimes props look better. Look at the Bizzare forum. All in all I like your essay and I'm glad you feel so passionately about these things. I would be happy to hear more. Salem |
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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts |
Jonathon,
Your last post was a little confusing, in as much as I am not sure of it purpose? Is it critique or guidance? Are you trying to undermine my efforts or help develop them? Your first question, unless I have misread, was suggesting (perhaps) that a more mature development is to appreciate the childlike wonder of magic through an adult gaze. No? If so, I do not agree. I want a magic that can offer social critique, which can express love, sorrow, loss, the rich tapestry of human emotions. I want a magic that offer political commentary too. Magic is in my opinion an untapped art form. I feel the first step is to distance myself for the image of the ‘sorcerer’ and integrate my performance into modern society. I am a man who has discovered and can exhibit weird and wonderful things. As amazing as these things may be, the intention is bigger. Salem, Thank you for taking the time to appreciate the text, it is greatly appreciated. Regarding the cups and balls, in section two p6: ‘Cups and Balls is a perfect example of an effect that makes its spectators want to suspend their disbelief. This is to say that nobody (except perhaps the very young) actually believes the balls travel through the bases of the cups. Instead the effect, with its whimsy, charm and simplicity, lulls its viewer into a mental state that allows them to feel comfortable being distant from logic and accepting of what they are seeing. The ‘goodness’ of the Cups and Balls lies more in its transcendental powers than its physical presence. This may sound like a grandiose suggestion but, the very same transcendental power is exploited in a staggeringly successful way by filmmaker’s.’ ‘With the above in mind, it is fair to say that it is not the props, or the magician or even the whole that makes a ‘good’ effect. It is the ‘whole’s’ ability to make the viewer more accepting of the fact that they are being asked to temporarily ‘ignore reality’ and accept what they are seeing however unbelievable.’ Regarding the magnet on p9: ‘Since not many people have experience of rare earth magnets (despite the fact they are common objects), their real properties will not be known.’ Earth magnets are sold in many toy shops/gadget shops. They are part of pop culture. Hope that helps, Matt |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I've posted sources for research, examples to consider and perspectives too.
You sought modernity. I suggest looking at the basic notion of cultural maturity. To a child or caveman a cell phone is a miracle. Today it's technology and nothing more. What frame do you wish to put around your magic?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts |
Jonathan,
Thank you for the suggestions. I will add them to the list. Matt |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-02-06 13:21, matthew leatherbarrow wrote:...I want a magic that can offer social critique, which can express love, sorrow, loss, the rich tapestry of human emotions. I want a magic that offer political commentary too. ... Check out Hofzinser's magic from about two hundred years ago. Really. In the early 1900s Karl Germain brought a sort of visual poetry to his magic as well. There are wonderful things in print right now where this material is made available. And the Strugatski brothers story is a trove of ideas very much like your magnet that affects coins.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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matthew leatherbarrow Loyal user 240 Posts |
Jonathan,
What things are in print right now and where do you recommend I obtain them? If such material exists why is todays magic so artistically retarded? Matt |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-02-06 15:11, matthew leatherbarrow wrote: The Germain book is still available. The works of Philip K. Dick, Neil Gaiman and J. K. Rowlings are in print. I found the Strugatski Brothers story without too much trouble on ebaY. A few months ago there was a Genii issue about some of Hofzinser's magic, and his old card tricks book is available as an ebook even now at http://www.lybrary.com for a few dollars along with other classics of magic. There is a wonderful world of stories and ideas out there beyond the silk strewn magic shop whose walls are covered in how-to cookbooks of poorly described routines that served their inventors three generations ago and have since lost context. It's really up to you to leave the land of hype and self involved "invention" that magicdom has let fester for two generations now. The more you spend time LISTENING to your audiences and exploring the world we all live in, the more you can imbue your magic with meaning FOR your audiences.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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