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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Books, Pamphlets & Lecture Notes » » "Kennedy Mentalism" new book soon (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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J ack Galloway
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Andrew,

I have to say some of what you scribe is what I think also.

I have worked hard for twenty some years to step up and away.
To create.

Heck it is the only reason I am here.

I realised that I needed to make it public what I had created.
(Kuffs made me aware of this).

But if the guys who created it know of anothers work based upon their work I have no problem with it.

Jack

H.12/O.17 A-X
deputy
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I have not purcased his book yet but I will soon, ii have chetted with Kennedy several times and has always been extremly helpful and extremly knowledgble. I can not wait to order it!
Andrew Richmond
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I'm glad I evoke thought Bobser, that is all my posts are intended to do.

Just for the record my statement at the beginning about Kennedy being a nice enough chap is genuine and I have no issue with any of you.. I see this as a place to post opinions and thoughts about what we do, buy, love or hate.

I also feel that as long as we have vaild points and not just envy or a grudge some posts can be brutally honest from our perspectives. In another topic I made reference to Osterlinds ODDS which I am not a fan of. I then received lots of posts telling me I didn't understand it or had never done it which happens when one posts about something others clearly love.

I simply say it how it is from MY point of view and some of the remarks that come back can be a little patronising at times. It's like sayng to someone who doesn't like classical music "Go back and listen to it again, you cleary didn't hear it." or "If you don't like classical music like I do you have no taste."

Sure some of my posts my go for the groin area but trust me reading all of the "It's a Killer" "I fried them." "They were Blown Away" posts from some members here can get a little tiresome especially when you suspect they rarely do what they claim.

It would be soo easy and ego forfilling for me to post how I slayed an audience with ODDS but the reality was it got some good responses and other times it didn't due to the design being restricted to words written on cards.

If Kennedy's book was titled Standing On The Shoulders Of Giants and had a preface that indicated that many of the routines are variations on previous routines by other artists and every avenue was taken to ask permission from them. I wouldn't have made a post about it. However read the book and you'll read time and time again "I have been told that this routine is simular to ..... but I had never heard of ....... and came up with it independantly..

When you say this said about Killer Elite a mentalism routine that won effect of the year about ten years ago and has been a constant seller since then from someone as well read as Kennedy it just doesn't seem genuine and once you suspect this about one routine you begin to suspect about others.

Kennedy even makes a post about Morely Buddens routine in another topic claming his friend Luke Jermay told him about it.. Hhhhmm most uk mentalists that I have met who have worked as extensively as Kennedy knew of Morelys routine years ago.

I remember seeing Jay Sanky do it around 1998 and a mentalist (Name escapes me) at the international convention in 2000. I make these points so that those who may think I have some kind of grudge will hopefully understand my lack of enthusiam..

I don't care who writes it, performs it or creates it if it is available for us to love it is available for us to dislike.
I am also not prone to changing my views, I read lots of interesting posts about ODDS after my statement, however I still have the same opinion about it, but I do not have an ego that will prohibit me from changing my views on other issues, performers, routines or creators.

A.R.
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"Why?"
"So I can find it."
"Why?"
D.Paul
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The fact of the matter is that if people like Kennedys book and if people like odds and if they believe something is a killer effect then to them it is a killer effect (and by the amount of people who have posted about odd's and thoughts so far I would say a lot of poeple do), whether you like or dislike it does not change it. For you to say "you suspect they rarely do what they claim" well I can tell you that I use odds and 2 effects from Thoughts so far all the time and believe me they are killer effects FOR ME. If you believe in an effect and perform it well with a good presention then it can blow people away as you stated.

Darren
Mesaboogie
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Andrew, you remind me of a certain Daniel Young who also gave honest reviews on the Café but is, alas, no longer here because of it.
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mag1c kev1n
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Come on everyone, lay off Kennedy. He is the number one mindreader to come out of the Magic Café in years and he was part of the most interesting touring mentalism shows in the UK ever. Read the reviews of it, they speak for themselves.
mike89
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Interesting post Mr. Richmond. But if you think about it, close no effect can be called original. They are alll built on old principles. But plagury is certainly unacceptable. However I have no hestitation in backing Kennedy. A genuinely nice and clever chap, he would not have been as caniving as to knowingly sell an already existing routine to his own name. Best of luck to him.
"I believe the human race and fish can co-exist peacefully" -GEORGE W. BUSH
Andrew Richmond
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D.Paul Quote me correctly if you must quote me at all "from SOME members here can get a little tiresome especially when you suspect they rarely do what they claim.'

I neither have time or care if you use ODDS or have learnt to read Thoughts So Far.. But I wish you success with the things you believe 'BLOW' people away.

Mag1c Kevin your user name says it all.. Have you actually seen Kennedy's stage show? I hope for sake you haven't because if you have and still stand by you post I would value your opinion less than I already do.

I feel Derren's sell out shows in the west end are bench marks for mentalism shows certainly during my era.

Mike 89 (Love your signature)
All builders use hammers and drills, bricks and cement but it is what they build that makes their work different. A mentalist may use a one ahead principle, NW, CT, he may divine a word, dup an image but how in many ways makes the difference.

I think your point is understood but not relevent in this context..

If a new Jermay routine came out where a spectator thought of a secret time, then a persons watch was changed randomly sight unseen and Jermay predicted the time and by some strange coincidence the random time also matched we would all Jump up and down and say that's Osterlinds watch routine. Now if Jermay said I have never heard of Osterlinds watch routine and my version uses a ladies watch and my peek is not via a billet but a peek wallet we would massacre him..

But because Kennedy posts here ALOT! you all know him to a degree and your knowledge of what has come before is not as high as you thought it becomes okay.. Rather than really looking at the issues and being true to yourselves you stand by your misinformed posts from before rather than stand down from your arm chairs of knowlege..

How funny you are. You create the perfect illusion but it is on yourselves.

A.R.
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"Why?"
"So I can find it."
"Why?"
Markymark
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I only have so much money I can spend on books so I like reading a range of opinions such as those expressed by Mr.Richmond.
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
Andrew Richmond
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Marky Mark,

Please don't take my opinions on Kennedy's book as a deciding factor as to whether you'd buy it or not.. There ARE some nice bits in the book that can be reworked to suit you. Ethically I think Kennedy should be a little more mature but he is a young guy, my main issue here is how everyone defends who they know regardless of whether or not who they defend maybe in the wrong. Just read the posts above to see those who do..

The book is not highly priced and may have some effects for you just don't buy it and then give Kennedy credit for creating things that have been around for years..

A.R.
"Take a card any card!"
"Why?"
"So I can find it."
"Why?"
Ken Dyne
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Okay, I was going to keep quiet and have been advised to do so by so many of my friends and associates. They are wiser than me so maybe I should have taken their advice.

At the risk of damaging my image as a “nice guy” I am going to tell some truths. I feel this way, by telling people as it is I can be seen as someone who is up front and honest. Something I pride myself in.

The work I put out is not full of dreams or theoretical concoctions. No, instead I am one of the few people who has written down real stuff that I have used in the real world. I would not, will not and have not released anything which I have not used in the real world. The way I see this is that if I haven’t tried it and seen that it really does play for real people then how can I assess the value of such a piece. As mentioned by countless people who have kindly taken the time to contact me public ally, privately by email phone and letter the tiny nuances I describe in each and every effect are things one can only learn from performing these pieces in the real world for real people, regularly.

When it comes to originality I have to say that there are very few 100% original methods out there. Think about the similarities between my routine Subliminal Summer and Andy Nyman’s amazing Killer Elite (yes, I’ve checked it out now), with all the respect in the world, Mr Nyman was not the first, nor will he be the last to put together a routine which uses this tried and tested method. I can think of a dozen other routines by a dozen other creators and performers which employ this amazing method. Of course since I am the new kid on the block that means that I can be tarnished with some brush that some more established and recognised performers don’t. I am an easy target…the latest one apparently.

If we look at mentalism in its skeletal form there are but a few methods at our disposal, it is about how we employ those methods that we care about.

If you are looking for a book which contains 100% new methods…I think you are looking for something that doesn’t exist. If you are looking for new approaches, presentations and thoughts on mentalism then there is a wealth of knowledge at your disposal.
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
kcalB
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Quote:
On 2006-02-04 10:16, Mesaboogie wrote:
Andrew, you remind me of a certain Daniel Young who also gave honest reviews on the Café but is, alas, no longer here because of it.



He's a welcomed additioned at I place I can't mention here.

Sebastian Black
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Creator of The Clearly Q&A Board

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Andrew Richmond
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Techniques such as multiple ---s of course have existed for years and years. Read my post again about how your subliminal summer routine is almost a carbon copy not of method but of overall effect. To say you had never heard of Killer Elite is a little thin as you seem to have views on practically every product out there (Not a bad thing.) If your routine had and I am repeating myself here an introduction saying this is based on another post card effect using multiple ---s called Killer Elite then fair play, but you don't you claim never to have heard of Killer Elite and was told afterwards about the simularities..

I and others don't buy it, that discredits your book in my opinion, as do many of the other effects that are very close to the original effects out there. Anyone can write up an effect and claim ignorance about whether it existed before, it is the professionals who create enough of a variation to release it or to get permission to release something that maybe close to existing routines.

I know Andy and he would not have given you permission as Killer Elite pro was due out, also he has said that at no point did he get even an email informing him you were about to release a book with essentially his effect in.

In terms of you being the new kid on the block that has nothing to do with whether I like or dislike your work, I have posted positive feedback about your book as well as my views on what makes it not so good.

I couldn't care less if you had been in the business for 20 years with 10 series on television. I have my views about Osterlinds ODDS surely he can't be called a new kid on the block? My points raised are valid and believe me I have had a lot of pms from people saying they completely understand my points.

I wish you well Kennedy, I really do. But I purchased your Book and have views on it and opinions about how simular some of the routines are compared to existing routines that have been well established.

Pleae don't insult my inteligence by doing the "I'm new and an easy target" routine, my posts and comments are not malicious they have points that I am allowed to voice. Once you put something out in the public domain it is up for any comment as long as those comments good or bad are made with thought.

I hated the spice girls and thought they were talentless bimbos in skirts but I'd get millions who loved them telling me I'm wrong, well I still think their talentless bimbos in skirts but thankfully past their sell by date.

Does that make me wrong? does it make the millions wrong? Niether we all have artistic preferences, ethics, religions and views on the world. My views are clearly stated about your work for no other reason than reading your work and forming that opinion.

A.R.
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"Why?"
"So I can find it."
"Why?"
Chris Jones
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I agree with kenenedy killer elite is a great trick. I look forward to reding it.

Criss
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Ken Dyne
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Hi.

If Andy Nyman has an issue with me releasing this then I will sort it out with him directly. At the end of the day I released it in good faith as I thought (and still think) it has value to illustrate logical multiple outs. I love Andy's thinking and would not go along and do anything to show any disrespect for his work willingly or otherwise. I will not deal with this in a public forum with a third party.

Andrew, you are absolutly entitled to your opinion. I just find it interesting that you quickly jump to conclusions that everyone is out to ripp others off. when in fact the only reason I released any of it was to try and share some ideas to maybe progess this stuff.

Kennedy
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
Andrew Richmond
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Kennedy,

I don't for one minute think everyone is out to rip off everyone else, far from it.

This is about your book and what I made of it, some nice ideas, thinking but many of the routines for me seemed too simular to others I have read in the past. Subliminal Summer was one such routine that to me and some others thought was a straight copy of Andy's Killer Elite..

I don't think Andy has any issue with you Kennedy, but I for one know Andy wouldn't give permission.. I doubt he even knows of your books existence. My point is not to defend his products, to be honest that's his business. My point and views that I have expressed as clearly as possibly is about borrowing from others without prior conscent. It just shows a lack of professionalism.

Also I feel many here are not well read so instantly give you credit for creating these things which you have not. They then jump to your defence in ignorance..

I have no interest in what you release Kennedy just as long as you do it the right way and don't stand on the shoulders of giants excepting accolades from arm chair mentalists.

As mentioned I know Morely Budden very well, he created that dual reality routine years ago and has held on to it for many years since. Simply putting "Apparently this is like Morely Buddens" after your effect is not quite enough..

Your intentions for releasing a book may have something to do with sharing but let's be honest there was also a lot of ego attached to that as well. Osterlind, Banachek, Maven, Cassidy have really done the rounds with their material, years and in some cases decades before releasing it. It was not about ego at all, it just felt like the right time. With you it feels in my opinion that you seek some kind of accolade, if you are as good as you think you are it will come with time and performing for real people, your show was not good Kennedy, it lacked so much, this is where your mind should be set unless you want to forge a career as a mentalism effect producer. A business card and a website does not make you as good as you wish you could be. Focus on your performance, people are paying money to see you, do this and then once you have something that really needs to be said then share it.

A.R.
"Take a card any card!"
"Why?"
"So I can find it."
"Why?"
Andrew Richmond
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An interesting segment from Kennedy's website..

"There are oh so many professional "borrowers" in ‘show business’ who seem to get away with it regardless of what they are doing, which is basic bold headed thievery. It is the same of copy cats , people who literally see something and copy it. This happens a lot in comedy and magic. Comedians have been known to take gags from others and magicians have taken routines and things form others and used them in their acts. That doesn’t make you clever or big…no no it doesn’t it makes you stupid, so stupid in fact that you cant come up with your own ideas…furthermore you can even pay someone else (a professional) to come up with them for you.

So here, ladies and gentlemen is my analogy of copying. Who is the better magician? The one who copies or the one who creates, develops and devotes time to a new piece? Magic is an art form, as is comedy, it takes artistic skill and flair to be successful. My friend and fellow magician Liam Gilbert is a pianist. He plays a wonderful piece of Mozart. Although Gilbert is playing it, its still Mozart’s Symphony! If I could draw (and believe me - I can’t) and I take that famous Mona Lisa and copy it precisely, it is STILL Devinci’s Mona Lisa…COPIED by Kennedy."


Hhhmmm.. Not only does he borrow he denounces those that do..

A.R.
"Take a card any card!"
"Why?"
"So I can find it."
"Why?"
Jean-Luc.R.
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Well ,I first started this thread to know about the specific routines in Kennedy's
book.

I think I also started ...a fire...
magicinsight
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I am attempting to purchase Kennedy's book at his site but it is not working. Also while Kennedy's book is listed on Alakazam's site in the UK, it is not listed for sale at its US site.
“Belief matters more than truth. Every moment, belief in imaginary things alters lives while truth sits unnoticed and waits.”
—Hakim, Loreweaver
Ken Dyne
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Surely the fact that I am so against this "borrowing" as I call it in my blog should illustrate the fact that my work has value.

We are having problems with my website at the moment regarding the purchase pages...anyone who wants the direct link please pm me.

Kennedy
MR GOLDEN BALLS 2.0: https://mentalunderground.com/product/mr-golden-balls-2-0/" target="_blank"> https://mentalunderground.com/product/passed-out-deck/

BAIRN: Named 'Best Mentalism Product Of 2014 by Marketplace of the Mind is my collection of more than 40 mentalism routines in a beautiful paperback book: http://www.mentalunderground.com/product/bairn
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