I am in an area where restaurant magicians are not common... in fact I have never seen one around.

Well, there is about to be (me). Restaraunts are becoming interested. I know what some magicians charge in other states and regions but how do I decide what I should charge?

I am afraid to ask what some other people charge but I also have little competition (no, you guys can't move here).

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

Try asking at a local magic club first, second magic shops, third any different entertainers like musicians, fourth look how much is the most expensive course served in the restaurant and double it (by the hour with a minimum of three hours, otherwise raise the price per hour), fifth ask yourself: "How much am I worth? How I'm good to ask?".

Before to ask money to the manager/owner show him/her the reactions of the people to your entertainment and tell them that your presence could help them to raise their business with returning customesr and new customers love magic.

Don't ask about NYC, I believe here and there they are two differents planets...

My best wishes for you!

Paolo Venturini

Take the average cost of a dinner for two, double it, subtract the cost of their cheapest bottle of wine, add the cost of their chocolate cake, divide the total by how many hot waitresses there are, and then multiply that by how many sponge balls you plan on carrying in your pockets...
it should come out to $150 MINIMUM for a night (approx. 3 hours), plus a share of the evening's tips.

Am I close to what you were thinking?

Cheers

Kaylan

1) Don't ask the local magic club. Chances are your response will be something like, "You're getting paid? I thought you could only work for tips?"

2) Don't even THINK about a "share" of the evening's tips. If you try to take so much as a dollar from the service staff - you're going to last a night, two tops.

IN FACT - you might want to consider sharing any tips you receive back to the staff (not the other way around).

As for what to charge - what are you worth? -AND- how are you going to help make that restaurant MORE money?

Are you going to just be a goodwill ambassador?
Are you going to "just do tricks?"

You've got to decide what you're worth to yourself, and what your're worth to the restaurant.

I can't even venture a guess but let me put it to you this way.
Some guys can get $300+ per night for 2 hours. Some get about $50/night for 2 hours.

If you want to charge $300+, you'd better be able to deliver serious results.
If you only think you're worth $50/night, they'll get what they pay for.

Good luck - BTW, what restaurant will you be with?

Robert Bloor

It is a local restaraunt....medieval theme. So I will be costumed... which I do have a bit of experience in.

Thanks everyone.

The phrase "whatever the market will bear" comes to mind when the question is asked.

I will say this and please take it in the right fashion. NOBODY here can tell you what to charge in your town. Especially if you are breaking ground that nobody is in yet.

The magic club will be of no help, because if they knew they would be working already, and you have told us there is relativly no competition.

Often I look at these things like what cryptologists call a "self authorizing language". It means by the time you can figure out the language, you are entitled to know what is being said. Kind of the same thing here, if you have to ask you probably have little business knowing the answer.

This is a question best answered by yourself. What is your time worth. If my time is worth $5 and hour and yours is worth $100 an hour, I am going to give you the wrong advice and vice-versa.

If you have local musicians try finding out what they get per hour. Compare yourself to them they do a similar job, like a pianist. If it is an exclusive establishment with high prices you will probably do better.

Do you want tips to be part of the mix? Do you only want salary? If only salary then it has to be higher. If you do a combo of tips and salary you can go a little lower. Are they going to advertise?

Forget the things about how you are going to make them more money. YOU'RE NOT!

Simply put, you can never point to how you are making them more money. It is an intangible and cannot be proven so don't claim it up front. It will lose you the job later if you're not careful. Many guys walk in claiming to help the bottom line and when it dosn't happen they are out on their ear. So stay away from those claims.

You are part of "ambiance". To make their customers happy.

Here's an article by Scott Guinn I liked. A good guide in my opinion.

http://www.online-visions.com/pro-files/0211.html

Scroll down about half the page and you will find Scott's formula for restaurant prices.

Jaz, you are the best!

Jaz,

An invaluable post. Scott's article is "cutting edge" on this issue and is a "must read". Thanks for taking the time to post this link.

Mike

Keep in mind that the formula I offer in that article is a suggested guideline, not a hard and fast rule!

But.... how am I to make money???

I agree with what Paolo had to say about showing them how the clientele will react to you. Do a free 15-20 minutes as an audition. Make it clear that this is just that, a free sample. Some may feel it is enough to just show the management a few tricks and be charming. Go with your gut on this. Do what works for you, what you are most comfortable with.



Danny, doesn't being part of the ambiance count towards a more pleasurable dining experience, particularly for patrons with young kids? If you entertain the kids and keep them from whining and fidgeting and doing all those other things kids do when they are bored, Mom and Dad will have a better time. Doesn't that make it more likely that they will think of your establishment as being a better choice than one where they have to put up w/ whining and being annoyed because it took to long for the waiter to show up or, there is a delay in the kitchen?

How about all those places where people are sitting around a crowded lobby space for 20 minutes or more waiting for a table? Giving little Johnny a balloon and showing Suzy a trick can work wonders in keeping everyone happy. Shouldn't that value-add be taken into consideration? It may not show up in the evening's receipts, but everyone will have a nicer time.

I would also posit that if you become a regular feature on a particular night, over time there may very well be a tangible increase in business. After all, when Mom & Dad are deciding where to go, the place w/ the magician will be a lot more appealing than a similar restaurant without one.

I will get down off my soap box now.

Fccfp - You're right, but what you're describing is ambiance. I don't believe Danny is saying that you WON'T bring up their bottom line...what he means is, even if you double their buisness there's no way to prove it is you. There is no "tangible" evidence saying that you as the magician caused their sales to increase.

Aside from that, let's pretend that everything else (other than the magic) in the restaurant is great always, yes, they may see their profit increase with a magician. But what if you do GREAT as a magician, the tables love you, they tell the manager all the time... every shift you work you get 10 compliments. BUT their delivery company has been flaky the last 2 months. The 4 new servers they got are terrible, their cooks are making mistakes and their food cost goes up etc. etc. etc. These are but a few of 100 things that could cause a restaurant's income to rise or plummet... and these are all things you cannot control.

You CAN'T promise increased revenue. At times it will drop, and not because of you. But when it does, you will have officially not made good on your promise. I think promising you will help their buisness make money is pretty much the worst thing you could say to help get you hired. You're setting yourself up for failure. And managers/owners talk amongst one another, and will hear how you didn't make good on your promise. You'll also lose a reference when they drop you.

DITTO!

Ok I will explain for the 1000th time what I mean although it has been put forth pretty well.

First off I owned a restaurant. So my perspective is pretty good.

I am saying that you will not be able to show a direct corolation between your presance and an increase in revenue. What you describe is NOT a bottom line figure which may be pointed to as "revenue increase" as magicians like to say it.

Here is why that is a dangerous game. IF you happen to be in a strong week and get credit for extended revenue, then guess what will happen in the slow weeks? You get called to the managers office (who by the way is MUCH tougher to deal with than the owner, he is trying to IMPRESS the owner) and he asks why things are down. You have no answer. BUT since YOU caused things to go up, who do you think he asks about it going down? It is a 2 way street. How can you take credit only when it is good, and blame when it is bad? Kind of silly.

Next and believe me here FEW people will come simply because you are there. They will come "back" they will enjoy the "ambiance" more and yada yada, but few show up first club out of the bag to see you. Sorry it is true.

I am not saying we are not usefull. I am not arguing against what we do. I am putting it in perspective.
We do NOT increase revenue in the fashion most of us like to claim. Want more proof? Easy. How many restaurants do you know that did magic folded soon after? If it is such a guaranteed revenue stream how can that be? How many do magic at all? If it is such a great revenue stream for them don't you think a LOT more would do it? See the point? IT is not huge like we like to pretend.

We are piano players with cards, we are nice things on the wall. We are great for what we are, but lets keep it in perspective and you will be supprised how many jobs you get, and how long you keep them.

If you don't make promises you can't keep or prove, management has nothing to be angry about. It is why so many guys can't get past the "probation" period. They promise to increase bottom line, when it dosn't happen managers get upset. Don't make the promise and your in the clear.

I don't disagree that there is no way to prove any kind of direct correlation. At the same time, things like 'nice things' on the wall are important to thoughtful management. I would not walk in saying I guarantee to increase your bottom line. Unless you have a huge fan base it simply won't happen. It would take a fairly long time, several months at least, for your presence to become part of the ambiance or persona of the place in the minds of a large enough group of customers.

What I do think is reasonable is that in a very competitive market place, all other things being equal, over time you will have an effect. This effect can be positive or negative, based on your ability to connect with the clientele. I think over the course of many month's you may start to hear from customer's "little Johnny said we needed to come here" meaning that instead of going to the other possible, equivalent choices.

Again, I am not claiming that you will be able to point to an absolute increase in bottom line immediately, but over time there should be some noticeable pick up in the times you are there.
As you mentioned, there are many things that will affect revenues on a given night or for a given period. I think it would be a pretty short sited manager that blamed the magician when he just put a new crew on or there are complaints about the food. If on the other hand the feedback was "that guy was really annoying, why did you hire him?" Management would be right to toss you out fairly quickly.

I was a burger king manager right after college. I will not compare BK to a regular restaurant by any means; it still is a place that people choose to go to rather than one of the competitors. The restaurant I worked at was in Queens, NY. There was an Arby's, McDonald's, a White Castle, and a Roy Rogers all within a stone's throw of our store. People could easily choose any one of these stores with any additional effort. None were a further drive, were easier to get to from one side of the road or the other, all had ample parking. We started a promotion for Tuesday evenings, a very slow night, offering Balloon Animal's for the kid's. Guess who made the balloon animal's? I was still dressed in my manager's White shirt, black pants and tie; I strolled thru the dining room at irregular intervals giving out balloons to who ever I saw. I also chatted with the kids and their parents, and, occasionally performed a trick or two. It took about 6-8 weeks, but there was a noticeable pick up in the numbers. The owner of the store had two other B.K.'s in the area and had me do the same thing at the other two. He apparently saw a benefit and obviously thought there was some added value. At the other two stores I wore an open collar shirt and a bright vest. I charged him as a performer for a two and half hours of strolling. He was happy to pay it and kept it up thru the end of the school year. He stopped it for the summer and I moved on to a better job, so there is no was to know if he would have continued in the fall.

I guess my point is that the only way to judge a result is to be able to hold all other variables constant. In the fast food market, with it's limited menu, it's not hard. With a regular, sit-down, restaurant that is probably harder to do.

Now your gonna tell us restaurant managers are NOT short sighted? Wait till you have been at it a little longer.

You don't think they will blame the guy who told them revenues will be up? Again wait.

They look at you as an expence. An extravogance. If you think you can tell the manager that YOU are responsipal for the increase in revenue, then go for it. I am saying it is a claim you can't back up.

I am telling you most managers would sell the pictures off the wall if they could get away with it to turn a buck. Thoughtfull management? Best way to keep them happy is to sell them a drink.

Look use whatever approach works for you. I am telling you what is being seen from the other side of the desk.

I'll tell you one thing..as a New Yawker...if there was a Mc Donald's a BK an Arby's,a RR and a White Castle in the same Area..and I am hungry..I am going to hit the White Castle!Oh man are they GOOOOD...until the next morning of course.

Sorry guys, I disagree. You can promise to increase business. The restaurants I perform let me know upon my arrival, which tables either requested me when they came in or had checked at the time they made there reservation that I would be there. Due to an injury,I recently had to call in sick at the last moment . The owner knew that one of his guests had made a reservation & had made sure I would be there. The owner called the guest & informed him that I was going to be out sick. The guest then cancelled the reservation for 15 people. That was a loss to the reastaurant of a $1,000.00 minimum.

I think that reservations that ask for you, walk in's that ask for you & comments from happy customers on the way out, are all ways that you can prove your worth.

So conversley when NOBODY asks for you then your NOT worth the money?
See if it works one way it works both ways.

How many times can you point to this? If you tell me it is more than an isolated incident your wrong.

Sorry yea for one night your the big deal. What about on slow nights? Is it YOU then or are you simly only in charge of what good happens?

Point is you can not dependibly point to a spot where you make a difference.