When I saw Latimer do his routine, he did not produce the cups magically.

One reason Latimer hasn't published his routine is that it isn't set in stone yet. It is still changing.

Shouldn't all our routines be ever changing?

johnny

Yes ...they should evolve as any good piece of art does.
You should be able to change and adapt your routine to different situations that always arise during performance.
Mobius

It depends. Your routines should grow with you until they reach a point where any changes you make weaken the routine. Part of art is knowing when to stop. Once Beethoven felt that he could not do any more to his fifth symphony, he stopped, and he published it.

When you are performing professionally, you must be able to do time. This means that you must fill your time slot exactly. You can't run over and you can't run short. A twenty minute show is not 19 minutes and 50 seconds long. It's also not 21 minutes long.

So, you have to decide what to leave in and what to leave out. Vernon's routine did not change appreciably from 1960 until he died in 1992.

This doesn't mean that you should not be able to adapt to different situations; however, when your routine is "set," it has usually been set after you have exposed it to many different performing situations. A good routine, whether it is cups and balls or anything else, has a definite flow and rhythm to it. You don't want to intterupt that flow without good reason.

This said, I'll point out that many times when you see a performer apparently ad-libbing, he isn't. He is performing set, scripted material.

I used to believe that scripting your show restricted you. It doesn't. It frees you from having to worry about what comes next.

Oh man, more words of wisdom...Bill you are one of the greats, you da man!!!

:)

johnny

Thanks. It's just experience. That's all. Basically, you have your routine, and then you have "flex points," but you don't stray far, because everything you add means you have to remove something else to make room for it.

I've been in magic since 1980 (when I was 13). I owned the regular Morrisey cups, light aluminum, unpolished. They did the job fine. Then, years later I purchased the Mikame wooden cups. I thought I was being different. But I never used them in a show - just admired them. Alas, they were too light for my tastes. I knew that the time would come when I'd buckle down and purchase a great set of metal cups. Someday.

Several years ago I saw the Van Dokkum Jumbos at a convention, and I decided there and then that one day, when I could afford it, I'd spring for this beautiful, heavy, shiny set of cups. Alas, I haven't yet possessed that much disposable income.

About a month ago a guy here on the forum posts that he's selling his Van Dokkums for a great price. I jump on the computer to PM him, but I was too late - somebody beat me to it. I was so depressed that I began researching other cups. Thanks to Bill Palmer for his wonderful site - it truly is amazing and awe-inspiring!

I discover the Rings N Things site and, being a sucker for "exclusivity", purchase the last set (of only ten ever made) of the Monti cups made out of Blue Steel. They're beautiful. Sleek, rare and dark-sheened. I'm in heaven.

But then, Mad Jake (of RNT) starts posting that he's selling items from his personal collection and I can't help myself from buying a set of Paul Fox prototype cups (the corrected version) made out of stainless steel! Now I have the Blue Steel Monti's and the Stainless Paul Fox's.

And I'm hooked. I keep researching the sites. I keep Bill's site bookmarked and visit it often (how I'd love to see the cups in person one day), and I know I haven't yet purchased my last set.

Interestingly, I'm not too impressed with cups made of brass or copper. Am I alone in this opinion? Maybe I'm just lazy and don't want to polish them (I'm not a fan of the unpolished "patina" of copper), but I absolutely adore the clean, new look of steel or chrome. Perhaps that will change as I mature (I'm 39 now).

(By the way, Mad Jake hasn't posted since April 30, and I hope he's fine. Maybe he's busy spinning new cups for RNT, but does anybody know his whereabouts or status?)

"Let us all raise our cups..."

Ruben Padilla

There are advantages and disadvantages to all the different metals. For example, polished metal can reflect things you don't want the audience to see.

It's all personal taste.

BTW, Jake's fine. I got a PM from him a few days ago.

He's just busy as all get out.

For me too Cups & Balls seems to hold all the mysteries and magic of the ages. I also think that Cups & Balls are one of the best examples of knowing the secret, dose not always ruin the magic. No mater how many times I see Cups & Balls preformed, when done well, it holds my attention, earns my applause and my respect.

I would also like to give a special thanks Bill Palmer for sharing his wonderful collection.

My street table and cups and balls.

Click here to view attached image.

Real Street Magic!!!

Click here to view attached image.

If you want to see real "street" magic, you should come to my neighborhood. The city is now performing "The Broken and Restored Street." They are about halfway through. I think I spotted the gimmick -- concrete and rebar. Takes an awful long time!

BTW, your setup looks really good.

Thanks Bill, that really means a lot coming from you!

The table top is a modified wooden picture frame from the Goodwill ($3) the table legs are also from the Goodwill ($2.50), they were actually part of a directors type lounge chair. The balls are from the Dollar Tree (discount store) one dollar.

The cups are Magic Makers and the close-up mat I got from Hank Lee's Magic factory.

:)
:)
:)

I Am Johnny Mystic

There's better pictures of these two images at...

http://www.myspace.com/chris_robertson

http://www.magic.about.com/

The chat forum at about magic is worth a look into...

I Am Johnny Mystic

Yeah it is addiction....I am very happy to have gotten a few new sets of balls by brett sherwood.
The red/gold and the jade/gold.
They look fantastic and as usual work great with the cups.
Here is an image of the new ball.
http://my.en.com/~mobius/_private/Jade_Gold_copper0003a.jpg

Later,
Mobius

Acetabularii addicts unite!

So...I'm addicted, I've spent the last few days coming up with a new routine using different balls and production loads...

I just can't get enough of these things!

johnny

I am a cups and balls fanatic also, yet I've never done a C&B routine. I prefer to enjoy a well constructed routine rather than execute one. Throughout my hardcore years in magic, I purposely avoided any type of instructions regarding the trick. One day, during a Columbini lecture, Aldo learned of my aversion to learning the C&B's. He was aghast. He gently forced me to go through the paces of his routine. It has a nice moment where the cup penetrates the table. He remarked that I was really good for not having any prior experience. Admittedly, I kinda' was... Anyways, I haven't touch the Cups since then. I figure once you fall down the rabbit hole, you can never go back so I try not to fall down certain rabbit holes.

I just ordered a set of Bazar De Magia copper cups, I should have them by Wed...

I'm so excited!!!

johnny

The cups and balls...no..no..I don't do those. What's that you want to search my car officer? Ok, ok I love them and have spent countless hours with them but I don't have that many... only 3 sets...shhh...don't tell I only need to get one more. Right now I only have 1 aluminum set, 1 charlie cups and balls (bamboo), and one copper penguin set, and I won't mention the royal magic plastic set everyone gets when their nine yrs, or my chop cups. I love the cups and balls! There I said it.