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hypn New user 79 Posts |
Hi Guys,
I am most likely going to upset a number of people with this post, but here goes. I see so many people mention the 13 steps to mentalism as a must have, yet ebay is cluttered with people selling copies. I would like to do one or two effect mainly predictions such as the name a person is thinking of or a predicatbale drawing. Would I not be better off buying a comercially available alternative that would allow the same effect. I have Richard and Banacheks DVD's where to from here ? In hypnsis we always recommend Ormond Mcgills Ensyclopedia as the one "must have" but although it is great, it most definately will not rate in my top ten way's to become a stage hypnotist Opinions and advice appreciated - flamming ignored regards Andre
Andre The Hilarious Hypnotist
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Jake Boone New user Cottage Grove, OR 78 Posts |
I have Corinda's 13 Steps to Mentalism, and I highly recommend it. Some of the effects are dated, but it's so densely packed with effects (particularly of the sort that you say you're interested in) that I expect you'll be quite satisfied with the bang for the buck.
Really, it's good. There's a reason you keep seeing it listed as a "must have." -- Jake
"Trust everyone... but cut the cards."
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Matt Andrews Loyal user Switzerland 219 Posts |
Hypn
Where do you go from here? Very good question and I was confronted with this question as well at the beginning of my learning process. And now after almost two years of learning, I would say nowhere. If you are a magician and you just want to add one or two mental effects, then you definitely find what you need in these DVDs. Now, if you want to become a mentalist (and not being recognised as a magician any more), my advice to you is: start performing. Try to perform for people who don't know you as a magician and get the feedback from your audience. Then watch the DVDs and re-read Corinda. Add Annemann's Jinx, Tarbell's course on magic and all Osterlind's e-book on Magic in your books to read. Perform again, get feedback. Re-read your books and watch the DVDs again. Then you'll know when it's time to learn a new peek, or if you are more into language subtleties and subliminal messages or which prop you really need. Sincerely, Matt
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Because nice matters |
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
I am nearly sure that people glance and Corinda and do not read it. I have fooled some people who have supposedly read it with the very material from it. I have seen Top mentalists on TV use material right from it's center pages.
It is true that it is written in an old almost tecnical manual style making it hard for most to read and some of the skills it teaches, especially in the start take time to learn properly. Corinda is not about quick tricks, it is about principals, so many are covered that you could construct almost any effect from them. I personally am glad that most people seem to have trouble reading the older material as it assures me of always being able to find an effect for myself that no one elese does. H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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Jay Are Inner circle 4186 Posts |
Definetly, 13 steps is a must have, so are the following books...
PK Touches Psychological Forces Mind Myth and Magick Stunners Plus Anything by Annemann Any mentalist worth his salt also has the color series from Max Maven, and Burling Hull's encyclopedias I have found that as you grow, what the must haves are change. For example -- you wouldn't neccesarily thnk that "coral Fang" or "Making Magic Real" or any of the titles I would site on my CURRENT must have list, were must haves. Fow what you are trying to accomplish -- it sounds liek you have the best stuff possible. 13 steps is for the serious and commited student, it is dense, and often pieces are overlooked by the under studied. There is gold in this book...
xxx
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Jondalawyer New user 63 Posts |
It seems to me that at some point you just have to read it. I tried to read other mentalism books without having read Corinda and there was frequently something that I couldn't quite understand. I have read it can now build on it.
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Carlos the Great Inner circle California 1234 Posts |
First, to answer the initial question (IMHO) of course:
Follow-up with Mind, Myth, & Magick and the color series by Maven (available as a book called Prism). Read them from cover to cover as many of the real gems are hidden away (from Prism, for example, I am thinking of the description of... Four-sided triangle...something like that, anyway, the explanation has tips on presenting mentalism worth the price of the book). If you really like using psychology in your presentations, Luke Jermay has some excellent works but Coral Fang may be the most useful (his dangerous opener can be used by anybody at any level, for example). Finally, though, most people here are correct. People sell Corrinda because it is work to go through. My copy has post-its and notes all over. Heck, the math stuff alone is enough to help improve your life and impress people. -Carlos
Cognite tute
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
Here is an example from Corinda, do you relise that people can name almost any date and month in any year in the past centuarys and you can tell them exactly what day that date fell on very quickly! turn this in to a calender mind reading effect and you have an astounding feat!!
H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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gdomeier New user 51 Posts |
As a beginning mentalist, I do recommend 13 steps. Aren't many of the copies on ebay new books? I know the one I purchased was.
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ac-magic Regular user South East UK 149 Posts |
Hmmm Yes...
I've HEARD that very good substitute for Corinda is Richard Osterlind's Easy to Master Mental Miracles DVD set. 4 DVD's all using methods detailed in Corinda adaptable to many other effects. Hope I helped Ali
A , mind reading, funny escape artist wanna-be
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Jim-Callahan V.I.P. 5018 Posts |
Hypn,
In my opinion it is always best and a better value to purchase books. More for the money. 13 steps and Ted's work are must haves as well as a book by Steven King titled On Writting. You read it and you will know how I set up parts of that experiment for Jack Galloway. If you need help PM me and I will do what I can. Jim Callahan
“I can make Satan’s devils dance like fine gentlemen across the stage of reality”.
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gdomeier New user 51 Posts |
As a second book I recommend Osterlind's Perfected Center Tear of Anneman's Practical Mental Magic. I may find more use for it as I progress.
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johnwolfe New user gettysburg, PA 48 Posts |
13 Steps is a must for the serious mentalist student. There is so much material that you could spend your entire career working with just that. The section on the swami has great ideas. Anneman is also a must. Someone also mentioned Burling Hull. There is great material in his work as well. I would also reiterate that Tarbell has a wealth of material for the mentalist. Those four sources (Corinda, Anneman, Tarbell and Hull) will, together with the work of molding the material to your presentation style, be all you need to have a great career as a mentalist.
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Hypnotic Winter Special user Ireland 720 Posts |
Richard Osterlinds ETMMM Series demonstrate just how wrong a lot of opinions are about the old material from Corinda and Annemann.
To me and having spoken to a friend who was starting, Corinda starts off by teaching the terms and principals then Annemann gives you routenes for them. if you get annemann first you may not know what the term NT or IM device is. Most non magicians and mentalists have trouble with other books as they do not know what terms like stack mean. H.W
When your only reality is an illusion, then illusion is reality.
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Sven Rygh Inner circle Oslo, Norway. 1945 Posts |
13 steps is a very important book if you are a beginner, and serious about mentalism.
As mentioned above, it is not a quick trick book, some describes it as somewhat dated, and it is not the easiest book to read. However, it covers a lot of the principles, and they are not in any way dated. I do not second the suggestions above, neither for Waters nor Maven for the beginner. To get the most out of their material, you need in my opinion some years of performing experience. I suggest that you consider the Tarbell course. In addition to a lot of mentalism, you also will find invalueable essays, advice and principles, great for both magicians and mentalists. Richard Osterlind's ETMMM is also a great choice. Sven
WWW.SVENRYGH.NO
"Keep it as simple as possible, - but no simpler" http://www.svenrygh.no/sven-rygh/presse/nrk-forst-og-sist/ http://www.svenrygh.no/video.html |
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Reuben Dunn Inner circle Has a purple ribbon wraped around my 1592 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-02-16 14:12, Jake Boone wrote: Not to stir up a hornest's nest here, but given that reasonng, one might as well sling out the Annemann material as well, given that the material in PMM and The Jinx was written in the mid 1920's. It might be "dated" by 2006 standards, but nothing wrong with taking out the dated material, and rebuilding a new effect around the framework. By the way, Cumberland, Strivings, and of course Osterlind have taken such "dated" material and have and are still "killing" with the effects, Osterlind If my faulty memory serves me, pulled an effect from Corinda and put in his ETMMM set. Taking things a bit further, I would of course recommend Annemann's Practical Mental Magic. I would, perhaps carrying the recommended reading list thingy a bit further, recommend Bob Cassidy's "The Artful Mentalism of Bob Cassidy" along with his Mental Miracles DVD. The DVD was my first introduction to the craft, in fact I did my first audition using several routines from the dvd. I am a Cassidy, Osterlind fan, if only for the fact that their acts are "clean" in that there are few, if any external props. In my humble opinion of course... {;-) |
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Richard Osterlind V.I.P. 2213 Posts |
I can remember when I first decided to specialize in mentalism and my quest to find suitable material. All the guys in the local magic club recommended Corinda and Annemann and I got the books. After months of reading, I was struggling trying to find enough material for a single show. It seemed to me that nothing was really practical and that there must be some "hidden" source of information that no one was telling me about! I finally saw Kreskin, Ronnie Gann and a number of other mentalists performing live and then I began to get it. Gradually I learned how to present the classic material and to understand the great beauty in its simplicity.
ETMMM was an attempt to show the beginner how many of these classics should look. It was my intention that, after viewing these videos, the beginner would want to run to his dealer to get the books the material was culled from. If you read hypn's words (and I am certainly not criticizing him, just showing how his feelings matched mine): "I would like to do one or two effect mainly predictions such as the name a person is thinking of or a predicatbale drawing. Would I not be better off buying a comercially available alternative that would allow the same effect. I have Richard and Banacheks DVD's where to from here ?" That is a total of 11 (or 15 or more!) videos filled with just the type of material that hypn says he is looking for! I wonder if any amount of books or videos is going to make him happy at the moment. The key phrase here is "at the moment" because I am sure with a bit more work on the material and a greater understanding of what is important, he will realize what the real secrets are. Sincerely, Richard |
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Piers Inner circle A Limited Edition of 1394 Posts |
I love 13 Steps, and am still trawling through The Jinx.
Indeed, such great and useable material - now, today. And ETMMM proves it ! Piers. www.justgiving.com/piers-cancer-fund www.justgiving.com/Piers-Cancer-Fund-2 www.justgiving.com/Piers-Cancer-Fund-3 Finished my 4 months of Chemotherapy in 2009. 3 monthly checks since... and into 2021! As seen on the QE2 and QM2. Author of Salem's Cornucopia - SUC Book |
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gdomeier New user 51 Posts |
One thing I did not like about PMM is the fact that much of material requires special props. I am more interested in impromptu effects such as the center tear and one aheads and swammi effects.
I'm sure I will find more use for Anneman's material as I progress. My next area of study will be muscle reading. To me that will me a powerful improptu skill to lear. As a side note, has anyone taken the time to develop pencil reading skills? |
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Jake Boone New user Cottage Grove, OR 78 Posts |
Mindguy:
I actually couldn't agree with you more. It is completely true that while several *effects* in Corinda are dated, the *principles* are timeless. I perhaps should have spelled that out more clearly in my initial post. I did not intend to criticize Corinda's work for including dated effects; I just wished to point it out to hypn, in the interests of full disclosure, so that s/he could get a better idea as to the contents of the book. Note that I followed up the caveat about dated effects with an unreservedly enthusiastic recommendation to purchase 13 Steps. hypn: If you're still reading this thread, what mindguy says about updating the effects is absolutely spot-on. I apologize if I was unclear, or took as understood something I should have overtly spelled out. Even the dated stuff in Corinda is mostly trivially easy to update to props or other items you'd have lying around in 2006. -- Jake
"Trust everyone... but cut the cards."
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