The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Alternative Dr. Daley ending? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

mxray
View Profile
Loyal user
276 Posts

Profile of mxray
This may belong in the "Why change something if it already works?" category...
Last night I did the Dr. Daley trick with Queens for some players at my table..
But on a whim, at the end, when the 2 cards were in the spectator's hand, I swept over his hand with a one handed fan, pausing for just a millisecond over his hand, as I passed over it. I asked the spectator where he thought the QS was now. He picked the top, trying to outguess me.
Without saying anything, I very slowly turned the fan over, and pulled the QS out of the fan.
With no prompting from me, they drew conclusions greater than any sleight abilites I actually have: That I had somehow picked up the two cards in his hand and put down two others in the split second that the fan was over his hand,all without him feeling it. (A woman at the table asked him if he felt me touch his hand.) So the fact that the QS was in the fan seemed to really add a significant element for them too.
The normal Dr Daley has gotten great reactions in the past, but last night's reactions were even better, so I am thinking of mostly doing it that way henceforth.
But I know you can't judge the long term reactions of something by a single performance. I'll bet someone out there has already thought of some variation like this, and I am wondering if it has it consistently improved responses for them.
Thanks,
MXRay
DomKabala
View Profile
Inner circle
I've grown old after diggin' holes for
2826 Posts

Profile of DomKabala
John Bannon has a variation of Doc's classic in "Dear Mr. Fantasy" and he uses a spectator in his presentation too.
:bikes: Smile Smile
<<<KRaZy4kardz>>>
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.

God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20

"Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value."



Smile Smile Smile Smile
davidpaul$
View Profile
Inner circle
Pittsburgh, Pa
2875 Posts

Profile of davidpaul$
I really enjoyed David Williamson's handling on his Down on the Farm DVD. Mxray,Thanks for sharing your handling, that's a great example of what makes the effect "YOU".
If you can't help worrying, remember worrying can't help you!
Roger Kelly
View Profile
Inner circle
Kent, England
3327 Posts

Profile of Roger Kelly
The 'in the hands Elmsley' as portrayed by Paul Gordon.
Jaz
View Profile
Inner circle
NJ, U.S.
6112 Posts

Profile of Jaz
Mxray,

You've created a 'moment of magic'.
I like it. Smile
Vandy Grift
View Profile
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3504 Posts

Profile of Vandy Grift
Mxray, I think what you've done is a good idea. Sometimes with a trick like that, which can almost be "too perfect" it's good to do something like you did. In order to give the spectator some sort of "out" in their mind. The woman who commented "knew" that the only time you could have switched the cards was when you passed the fan over their hand. It's impossible, but when it's impossible, they will grasp at anything.

It's like doing the "bluff move" with Skinners "Ultimate 3-Card Monte" there is no way you could make a switch while you are doing the bluff, but that's all they got, because the effect is so impossible. I believe using the "bluff move" stengthens the trick. Just like you fan move strengthened Doc Daleys trick for you.

One question. How did this work exactly? Are you starting by taking the cards from the top of the deck or are you working with a four card packet? Do you just slide the cards back into the packet after you have shown and placed the cards in the specs hands? I can't quite picture exactly how you did it.

Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Alan M
View Profile
Elite user
California
404 Posts

Profile of Alan M
I'm with Vandy. This sounds good but I can't quite picture the steps leading up to the revelation. I hope you will elaborate.
-Al
Tielie
View Profile
Special user
749 Posts

Profile of Tielie
Larry Jennings has a trick in which the aces change to queens (or something) at the end. With a little modification, this is what I do:

1. Transposition. The ace of hearts changes places with the ace of diamond.
2. Change. The ace of heart + ace of diamonds change into the spades en clubs (diamonds and hearts in your hand.)
3. Climax. Aces of spades and clubs to the table. Change in queen of spades + clubs, aces of heart + diamonds in hand)
Deal cards, not drugs!
mxray
View Profile
Loyal user
276 Posts

Profile of mxray
Vandy, I agree, it seems that for some things, if you give them a slight possibility of an "out", it sometimes seems to work better than if you don't. Kind of interesting psychology, huh?
To answer in an open forum : The only version I know of this routine is the one I learned from Ammar's ETMCM. I was dealing at a hold 'em game, and after a round, just stopped, fished the four queens out of the deck and went into the routine. That's what I do for most routines.
At the point (in Ammar's version) where there are two cards in the spectator's hand, and two in mine, (after the sleights, but before the goofy added fan) I just drew the attention away from the two in mine and got them concentrating on his two. I said "So now, the QC is...." and he replied "On the top!". And I said " And the QS is...." . He replied on the bottom. I asked him if he was sure, etc. Blah blah Blah.
During this, I openly dropped my two on top of the deck and shuffled and cut couple of times, retaining them there. I think what maybe made this work was two things: Openly putting them to to the deck signaled to the spectators that apparently, my two cards were no longer part of the trick (and thus of no consequence) and pointedly asking about which card in his hand was on top and which was on bottom sort of convinced them that something was "up" with those two. The natural tendency would be for them to then focus on those two.
I then said , "Okay, but I'll wave a fan over your hand..." (cue the slightly suspicious fan move)....." and NOW where do you think the QS is ? ". As I said he tried to outguess me, which was still fine.

MXRay


Posted: Feb 8, 2006 6:38pm
------------------------------------------
Roger:
I didn' t use the Elmsley count for this.
Or are you saying this Daley variation already exists and that's the name of it? (Sorry, the only Elmsley count I know IS in the hands.)

I'm sorry if I am misunderstanding you.
MXRay
Hideo Kato
View Profile
Inner circle
Tokyo
5649 Posts

Profile of Hideo Kato
Why mxray got the great reaction? Waving two cards over spectator's hands has relation with it? I think the main reason was that the spectaor guessed Queen of Spades. If this is correct, this can happen even if you place two black Queens on the table or keep in your hands. I think it was an accidental magical factor. The important question is "Can we cause this accidental magical factor more often?" I already found a solution. Thanks for the inspiration.

Hideo Kato
mxray
View Profile
Loyal user
276 Posts

Profile of mxray
I could be wrong, but I don't think it would have been the same if I had just just waved the two original cards in my hand over his.

The visual that the QS ended up in a sea of other cards is, to me, stronger than if I just simply retained the two cards I already had in my hand or laid them on a table.I think the fan pause slightly opened the mental door of possibility.

But we certainly are in agreement that his guessing added greatly to the effect.

MXRay
Hideo Kato
View Profile
Inner circle
Tokyo
5649 Posts

Profile of Hideo Kato
Of course appearance of black Queens in the different sea (as written by mxray) is strong point in Daley's Last Trick. Without this point, this trick is only a mere transposition trick. So I always shows black Queens (Aces in my performance) in my hands before turning two red Queens on the table.

Hideo Kato
Vandy Grift
View Profile
Inner circle
Milwaukee
3504 Posts

Profile of Vandy Grift
Mxray, I see now what you did. That's not a bad idea, apparently shuffling the other cards back into the pack. I've never done it that way. Sounds good.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Cain
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
1504 Posts

Profile of Cain
As I've suggested in other threads, I suspect this kind of action is contingent on the spectators' beliefs toward magic. This is a good action for those particular people because it does, as noted earlier, provide them with an "out". Magic is about effects with mysterious/unknown causes. This sounds like a reasonable movement because it's plausible enough for someone to accept it as possible, but amazing enough to still trigger an immediate emotional reaction. In the above mentioned _Dear Mr. Fantasy_, Bannon relates a story of a young woman who deduced the basic structure of Daley's Last trick. She reasons, "Well, you couldn't have switched the Aces after you put them in my hand, so you must have switched them before you put them there...." (emphasis original)

Aside from the fact that people necessarily bring with them their own baggage when viewing magic, routining is crucial not just in terms of logical construction and flow, but also how it enlargens the mentality of your spectators. If earlier you visually changed a card with the wave of a hand, then a rational person will be more inclined to believe your abilities allow you to switch cards (face-down) under slightly more fair conditions. This is why an excllent ACR is one of my favorite tricks. It inches toward a huge bang that people never ever could have imagined before the trick started, but as their preliminary explanations frustratingly cancel out, they get lulled into accepting something that is simply astonishing.

A gesture I do not care for is the ultra-hackneyed snapping of the fingers (though it can work, in my view, under some circumstances, such as when the effect happens instanteously). It's just not plausible in many situations -- an ineffectual, overused form of expression -- and causes my eyes to roll. Some people (particularly children) do of course believe the change happened *the moment* the magician snapped her fingers. This is "too perfect," "more impossible", in mnay cases, but if your spectators are liable to actually buy into that sort of thing... then it takes everything to a whole different level. However, as Bannon wisely cautions at the end of his section on DLT: "Don't kid yourself, it's not like we're doing real magic."
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
Luke Dancy
View Profile
Special user
Las Vegas
926 Posts

Profile of Luke Dancy
My new effect Complexion has a unique ending for the Daley plot. Because of the red and black cards changing places once or twice as per the original effect at the end the color of the cards in the spectators hands get confused and change complexion. It's a wild ending to an already great classic effect.

Your friend in magic,
Luke Dancy
Roger Kelly
View Profile
Inner circle
Kent, England
3327 Posts

Profile of Roger Kelly
Quote:
On 2006-02-08 18:38, mxray wrote:
Roger:
I didn' t use the Elmsley count for this.
Or are you saying this Daley variation already exists and that's the name of it? ( Sorry, the only Elmsley count I know IS in the hands.)

I'm sorry if I am misunderstanding you.
MXRay


MXRay - I should have said, In THEIR hands Elmsley. Soz. Smile
Vraagaard
View Profile
Inner circle
Copenhagen, Denmark
1169 Posts

Profile of Vraagaard
Hi mxray,

Great ending to a great effect - I really like it - thanks for sharing this experience. Normally I just wave the two cards in my hand over the spectators cards to cause the change - but putting them into a fan might give a different reaction. Here is a suggestion to enhance the effect. While you are "Shuffling" the two cards in to the deck in a causual off beat way and thereby signalling that they have nothing to do with the effect, you could also reverse them so they end up together reversed in the middle of the deck. By causing attention to the two cards in the spectators hand you will have plenty of misdirection to do that. I don't know if it adds to the effect - or it just makes it to complex - just an idea.
joker 55
View Profile
Special user
England.
711 Posts

Profile of joker 55
Can you post a video, I am confused about the fan, if there are two queens in his hand (or he thinks there is) then how many cards are in the fan??
mxray
View Profile
Loyal user
276 Posts

Profile of mxray
Joker 55, the two red queens were actually in his hand, (as per Ammar's version) but he thought the two black queens were in his hand. I have no means for posting a web video. I actually can't even look at most of these cool videos people post on the web. I use mac os9, and there is no Windows media player that works for this operating system. I can look at some quicktimes, while inexplicably, not others.
But the fan part is real simple. Its just a 1/2 to1/3 deck single handed fan, grabbed of the top of the deck. It doesn't matter exactly how many I grab, since the cards in question are on top.

I did it again last night, with aces, but changed it again. This time I asked "NOW where is the Ace Hearts?....Is it on the bottom...?", and used the corner tip of the fan to point to the bottom card in their hand. "...Or is it on the top?", and used the corner tip of the fan to point to the top card in their hand. What was cool was that the actual card I was doing the pointing with WAS the AH. Sort of an inside joke.
This guy also guessed the top again. (What is it with these guys?) And I said "Well, you're half right. It IS on the top, but ..." This time I didn't turn the fan over, but pulled the card out, and borrowing from the flourishers just laid face up on top of the fan. Sort of a poor man's "perching".
for what its worth,
MXRay


Posted: Feb 12, 2006 6:17pm
----------------------------------------------
Quote:
On 2006-02-10 09:24, Vraagaard wrote:
Hi mxray,

Here is a suggestion to enhance the effect. While you are "Shuffling" the two cards in to the deck in a causual off beat way and thereby signalling that they have nothing to do with the effect, you could also reverse them so they end up together reversed in the middle of the deck.

-That could be great for a humorous, Bill Malone-esque sort thing! Have the two reversed cards in the middle of the fan, but don't let the spectators see the topside of the fan (or the 2 queens).
Then, right at the point that you are saying "So....you think the QS is the bottom card in your hand, right? ", you slowly sweep the fan over their hand with the two black queens in plain sight.
I'll bet that would generate some good laughs.
MXRay
PMVIVA
View Profile
Elite user
Argentina
460 Posts

Profile of PMVIVA
I usually do Dr. Daley's Last Trick in a two phase routine. I first use the gemini count to show both black aces and put the red aces in the spectator hands without him to know about it. I make my presentation based on the different materials and inks the cards are made from and a little experiment on which black ace weights more than the other.

The spectator names one black ace and I say "That's imposible, he says the other and I repeat again that is imposible" showing that I have in my hands the two black aces instead.

For the second phase I tell the spectator that I will teach him the secret, that I was cheating him all over. So I take the cards in the same position to do the Dr. Daley's Last Trick, and I start doing the gemini count, taking the double from the center, and I say "The first time I've shown you the Ace of Clubs" while I show it to the spectator, I turn it face down, and I explain that I dealt him the second card, doing an exhuberating second deal so he could se, saying "But instead I dealt you the red ace" wich in fact is a black ace. I repeat the same with the other black ace. At the ending the spectator thinks he knows the secret of the trick, he thinks he actually has both red aces but instead he has the two black aces for a nice kickend.

That's how I perform Dr. Daley's Last Trick
If you have an apple and I have an apple, when we exchange them we both have an apple. If I have an idea and you haven an idea, when we exchange them we both have two ideas.

Supporting the open source community.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Alternative Dr. Daley ending? (0 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.29 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL