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jgravelle
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I have the utmost respect and admiration for Jeffery Campbell.

Given this forum's strong reputation for assigning credit where due, I feel compelled to add my voice in recognition of him as a (co)creator of the clear cups and balls (or "Crystal Cups") effect.

Our hats should be tipped to every talented performer. But my hat is off to Jeffery Campbell and Ronald Dayton for authoring this wonderful effect.


Regards,

-jjg
Vandy Grift
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I too think that Jeffery Campbell is a great guy. I simply do not know enough about the two effects to know if Jasons routine is derivative of Jefferys. Some people here have said it is not at all related. For his part, Jeffery has never claimed that Jason used his ideas, but he has said that the two are very similar.

Vandy
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
jgravelle
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True. I'd just hate for posterity to blur the genesis of "Crystal Cups and Balls" the way it did for the Tenkai/Goshman pinch.

Then again, I'm still angry that the Hindus get all the credit for the Curly Shuffle...


Regards,

-jjg
Chicagomagi
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This may be a bit off the topic at this point since this thread now seems to be a debate over credit for the origins of the effect, however...

Last week on American Idol they took some of the contestants to the Magic Castle. There was a very quick shot of a magi with 2 clear cups stacked with yellow balls on top and he made one penetrate into the top cup.

Not sure if this was what you saw that prompted this thread but it was pretty cool eye candy. Curious if anyone saw the magicians performing in the brief clips they showed of the performing magicians. They looked familiar but I couldn't name either performer.
Vandy Grift
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The guy with the C&B was Jason Lattimer. The coin guy was a man by the name of David Minkin.
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
Dave V
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Thanks guys for helping clarify the "parentage" of this effect, and it's descendents.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Terry Holley
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Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
mc_magi
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Thank you everyone for all the wealth of information.
The "American Idol" routine seems to be exactly like one of the last phases of Mr Lattimer's routine before the big finale.

Once again,for those who are concerned (lol if any at all) I will make sure I am sure of credits and permission of usage before I actually use it in real life.
Hows that?
Regards
Jonathan Townsend
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Mc, by all means contact the guys who worked on the crystal cups and also Jason Lattimer and see what you can work out. In that process you will have made some personal connections with other people who like the trick and they may have suggestions for you.

in general, when there is a trick that catches your interest and you want to study and learn the thing, go to those who have also studied the trick and have direct and private discussions. magic is built upon secrets. And secrets are private.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Terry Holley
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Since there is so much discussion over the origin of a "Crystal Cups and Balls" routine, let me throw the following into the mix.

What follows is a combination of posts that I made in the threads that I pointed to in my above post (with a few edits to make it easier to follow). Some of the content was a response to questions from others.

I'm not claiming to be the originator of a complete crystal effect (crystal cups, crystal balls and crysal wand), but you can read what I co-developed and when, as well as the inspiration behind it.

Here goes:

**************

For what it's worth, if you go to Jim Riser's great Cups and Balls web page and hang in there until all the photos are loaded, the bottom photo is of my Crystal Cups and Balls.

http://www.jamesriser.com/Cups/HistoricCups.html

The idea and routine was developed back in the mid-70's. My inspiration for this came from Roy Fromer's little book "The Cups" (copyright 1972). He mentions Crystal Cups and Balls as "The Ultimate Cups and Balls" under the heading "Three 'Dream' Tricks."

The fact that you can "see" through the cups without seeing the crystal balls is what makes it unusual. Of course, the design of the cups and the clear balls help with the disguise.

Also, the different size loads (as you can see in the picture) add to the uniqueness.

The loads are as follows:

Large balls under the end cups, then the cupful of smallest balls under the middle cup, and as the finale, the largest ball out of the same middle cup.

I haven't published a routine because the unique aspect to the effect is really the cups, balls, loads, and wand (all "crystal") - not the routine. The routine (moves) can go in diffrent directions.

I do hope that no other magician has "borrowed" the concept. Another magician and I worked out this effect in the mid-70's, and I believe we should be the only ones performing it.

Back around 1985 I had the opportunity to present it to a well-known name in magic who wanted to see it for possible inclusion in his shows, but he never used it for various reasons. One of his tips was not to waste time with all the ball moves and "get to the money" (the loads)!

*****************

If you read through the three threads that I referred to in my earlier post, you will see that the late Werner G. Seitz stated that "stage and close-up performer Phoa Yan Tiong did a such routine using clear glass cups."

I have no knowledge of Tiong's effect, and would like to find out more about it. I would also be interested to know if anyone can point to an earlier mention of a complete crystal effect than the one Roy Fromer made in "The Cups."

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
doublelift
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Quote:
On 2006-02-13 23:04, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
I was not aware Jason Latimer had published his routine or offered props for sale. There is an older routine on the market somewhere.

Going after this trick due to Jason's work is very disrespectul.

Monkey see -> monkey do is okay if you want to be treated like a monkey.


The older routine was what I was thinking of but can't remimber who, when or what. I wonder if that routine was (no disrespect ment)the spark for Latimers work. Wouldn't it be something if he got the idea from Penn and Teller and decided to make a real work of it. Calm down, just kidding...... Latimers Cups will probably be like Don Allen's Chop Cup. A lot of monkey's fell out of that tree. Come to think of it Don Allen fell out of Al Wheatley's tree! I guess Marco Tempest will be doing Virtual Cups next...or has he already?
Pete Biro
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Terry: Somewhere I have the books Phoa published and will look see if he mentiones the clear cups.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
mc_magi
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Okay, I am in need of help ><
I have tried looking for Mr Lattimer's contact information. I know that he has a website set up but I can't find that website argh!..I've tried search engines on and off Café but no luck.
Is there a publicly available contact information for Mr Lattimer?
Meanwhile, I'll continue searching T.T
Thanks in advance.
doublelift
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mc_magi
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...........
I SPELT HIS NAME WRONG......
Im going to go cry in my little corner now.
Thank you for bringing light to my blind eyes and twitching fingers.
What a mistake ==+ I spelt it with two t's everywhere.....
doublelift
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Quote:
On 2006-02-14 23:25, mc_magi wrote:
...........
I SPELT HIS NAME WRONG......
Im going to go cry in my little corner now.
Thank you for bringing light to my blind eyes and twitching fingers.
What a mistake ==+ I spelt it with two t's everywhere.....



Oooo, don't take it so hard sometimes my fingers don't type what I know is right! Smile
Mad Jake
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All the voices in my head helped me make
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Magic Inc also has a book listed....

http://www.magicinc.net/index.asp?PageAc......Compare=
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On 2006-02-14 21:47, Pete Biro wrote:
Terry: Somewhere I have the books Phoa published and will look see if he mentiones the clear cups.


Pete:

Thanks for your interest. I hope you will be able to find something on this.

Terry
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
Mesquita
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Ask Bill Palmer, here on Café, and I think he can answer everything you need to know about, any type of, Cups and Balls.

All the best,

:bikes: Mesquita Smile
"Siempre somos tres me acompańa la luna y me sigue mi sombra" René Lavand
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