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pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts |
I refer to this effect named Alladin by Dom Duvivier. Here is the demo...
http://www.magicshop.co.uk/CARD_MAGIC.21/Alladin.491.html Now I am having problems performing the Elmsley count properly, as in trying to push over 4 cards convincingly to look like one. This effect uses 6 cards. Could anyone provide any tips? Many thanks. Keith. |
magicbob116 Inner circle 1522 Posts |
Especially in tricks that use modified Elmsley Counts with a lot of cards, you need to watch the angles. If you keep the backs directly toward the spectator, they can't see that the packet is too thick.
B. Robert Pulver
The "I Hate Card Tricks!" Book of Card Tricks Vol. 1, 2, and 3 Kards for Kids Sticky Situations Sleightly Wacky http://www.magicnook.com/magicbob |
Magiguy Inner circle Seattle, WA 5467 Posts |
I may be off the point here and I apologize if I'm misunderstanding (perhaps magicbob is already referring to this as a modified Elmsley count). I struggled a bit with this as well, especially while practicing Tom Dobrowolski's "In the Hands Wild Card" (which I love, by the way), but his explanation is very good and his count uses a right to left Elmsley (versus a left to right, using mostly fingertips) where the left hand provides some cover for the transfer of the thicker packet. I also find that newer cards work best for me since they slide a bit more neatly and don't have the same tendency to stick to the cards beneath them. I'm sure that there are resources for this other than Tom's DVD, but the Wild Card routine is worth the modest investment either way.
I hope this helps more than confuses. |
pegasus Eternal Order United Kingdom 10537 Posts |
Thanks guys. I think the key to this excellent count looking effective is to be able to perform it quickly, although this does spoil the effect somewhat.
I am pretty adept at pushing of the cards (from the left finger pinch position) into the right hand but have problems in grasping them with my right hand without the 4 cards moving out of place. Perhaps air cushioned cards are not the best to use. Any further ideas? |
mc_magi Special user Vancouver, BC 949 Posts |
Quickness should not have anything to do with effectiveness in performing elmsley count.
rhythm and precision of moves is what sells this move. Try to go really REALLLLLY slow first, with rhythm and gradually speed up. My english isn't enough to describe exact hand motions >< |
Matt Pulsar Inner circle 1130 Posts |
I agree with rythm and precision. I also agree with going reallllly slow at first. And that is for any slight. This is because your muscles need to memorize the correct way to handle the action slowly before they will do it fast.
The following is how I have learned the Elmsley, and I still practice it every day. I deal from my right hand to my left. Not at the tips of my fingers, rather the cards are resting on the four fingers of my right hand and my thumb of that hand is pushing cards off. Other than the movement of the thumb my right hand is still. A good tip is to practice with this hand agianst a wall so you are not tempted to move it around. My left hand comes over and grabs one card which has been pushed off. As that card is moving away my right thumb pushes the block of cards on top of the last card to the left. The left hand brings the single undernieth the cards in the right and takes the block. the left comes back and takes the next card, and then the last. This is for a four card Elmsley. It is pretty simple once you have this to adapt a larger group. I hope this is not to much info for the forum. Stuart
Belief Manifests Reality.
Nebula CT: https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/8517 |
Caspar Veteran user Tacoma 316 Posts |
I am not familiar with the effect first mentioned, but if the order of the cards is not important and all you are doing is trying to conceal four cards a True False Count would probably be easier and looks very fair. You can find it in the book Count, Cuts, Moves, and Subtlety by Jerry Mentzer for less than $10 over at the Magic Warehouse.
The book also offers other alternatives to the Elmsley. |
vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Keith you might be better off using the Hamman count instead of the Elmsley.
The Hamman can handle a large number of cards Just a thought, vinny |
DomKabala Inner circle I've grown old after diggin' holes for 2827 Posts |
I use the original method that Elmsley explains in the Collected Works vol.I. I learned Vernon's TTW (early '70s) and count left to right (ala TTA) and have no problem counting multiple cards as 4 or whatever. I do not like the modern version where you hold the packet in a dealer's grip in the left and then transfer them over to the right pinch grip & then count back into the left (it looks too fishy). A good rhythm is necessary and the hand (right or left) that holds the cards should remain stationary as the other hand takes the cards. Also look into the Veeser count, it may just be your ticket.
:bikes: <<<KRaZy4kardz>>>
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.
God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20 "Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value." |
NYCJoePitt Special user 558 Posts |
I agree with MC... start REALLY slow at first. Almost absurdly slow and just keep doing it until it starts to speed up all by itself. Once you get the mechanics down, you can work on the rhythm. Which I think is important in making it more believable.
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Loual4 Special user Montreal, Canada 670 Posts |
In his book "Close up illusion", Gary Ouellette has a totaly different way of gripping the cards for the Elsmley count. He calls it the "paradise count". It is quite good when trying to do a Elsmley count with more than four cards. The handling is much easier and the result is the same!
Have a nice day! Louis Jutras |
Lance Pierce Special user 878 Posts |
There are limits to how many cards an Elmsley Count will bear, of course, but pushing off four cards shouldn't be too much of a problem. I use similar counts where five are pushed off.
Whenever you're talking about alignment, you're dealing with edges. In techniques like the Elmsley Count, alignment is ensured primarily through the position of the left forefinger at the front of the cards, along with the understanding that the right thumb only has to push the cards about a third of the width of the white border before the left hand takes over and carries the cards away. If you push too far with the right thumb, the cards will tend to go out of alignment simply because of the mechanics of the push off. The position of the left forefinger not only ensures alignment but also covers the front edges of the cards. For thicker packets, take the cards a little deeper into the left hand as well. Cheers, Lance |
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