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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Oldies... but goodies! » » Abbott's / Arturo / Supreme (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Julie
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Abbott's and Supreme had some kind of reciprocal agreement whereby each sold some of the other's products. Does anyone know if Abbotts sent items like Arturo's Twin-Di Box and Disecto to Supreme for resale or did Supreme have a woodshop on their side of the pond that made the versions Supreme sold?
Tony James
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Disceto was the Great Norman's. Elusive Rabbits was another among many. You know it as Hippity Hop Rabbits. Same trick

They were made in the UK by Jack Hughes of London and originally sold by Unique Magic Studio - Harry Stanley.Now it gets more involved.

Percy Abbott helped Edwin Hooper a great deal when Edwin launched Supreme in the mid 50s. He supplied Edwin and I think he was very patient about the money. Edwin won through though credit was generally a bit long winded. This helped create the biggest magic company in the UK for certain. Europe I'm not so sure about.

Edwin could certainly hold his head up in America when he went over, thanks in no small part to Percy Abbott.

Late 60s Harry Stanley sold Unique Magic and at that time Norman needed money. He wasn't young, felt he hadn't had good deals and wanted to sell out. You are talking about a man who had made one offs for Chung Ling Soo, Dante and many others,

So Edwin bought for cash all his many effects and made and supplied Abbotts. Interestingly Unique magic then collapsed, harry Stanley reaquired it or part of it (intellectual rights for example) and sold these and other things to Supreme,

When Supreme failed in 1995 ( Edwin had sold and gone and was dead by this time) the Unique Publications rights passed back to the Stanley family (Harry was dead) and the last I heard had been purchased by Martin Breese.

Abbots would have had those books for sure. There was a very good portfolio.

What's the Twin Di Box. I don't know that or at least the name.

I've a breakaway die box no one ever seems to know anything about. American c1940 - I think

Hope this helps in part.
Tony James

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Julie
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Thanks for the details, Tony.

The Twin-Di Box is indeed a break-away die box. It's still listed in Abbott's catalog. The generally accepted wisdom is that the best Twin-Di Boxes were manufactured for Abbott's by employee Arturo (Glen Babbs).

Having said that, I must add that I own both a Supreme model and an Arturo model (hallmarked) and they are virtually identical.

Julie
Tony James
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The box I have - polished wood - is an open compartment - no divider so the die can slide from side to side. The breakaway is a dovetail, fron t and back. You open the top doors and hold it either side, thimbs inside, fingers out and slide the two halves apart.

It's a strong dovetail and I suppose if you twisted it the dovetail may break.

I bought it s/h in the late 50s and was told it was American. No one who has seen it recognises it. One of those quests!
Tony James

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Julie
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Tony

You're right. That's not the description of a (painted)Twin-Di Die Box. The (non-separating/natural finish) Die Box with no center wall and the die actually sliding back and forth sounds like Abbott's Die Box> supposedly developed by Percy Abbott. You can see a similar box (with one tiny variation in construction) on the Die Box dvd/vhs performed by Gene Anderson. This one, however, does not separate.

Yours certainly sounds interesting!

Julie
Stevethomas
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There was one that actually appeared to have a center wall, but the die actually did slide across. It was made by National Magic, and it's listed in their catalogs (can't remember the item number, sorry!) as the deluxe model. It was mahogany and very nice. I sold mine a couple years ago. It didn't need a noise gimmick, since the die (or shell) would slide across.

Steve
Julie
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Steve

There's been a cheap import model of the one you're describing on the market for a few years here. It's an interesting variation, but not one I'd use given the other choices.

Julie
Michael Baker
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There is one described in some older book that I have here that has a sliding compartment within the box. The shell or die fits within that. I'll dig a bit and see if I can come up with a reference.

~michael
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Rick Fisher
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The breakapart die box was manufactured by Supreme and we just recently sold one in our shop...it was very unique. Disecto was invented by Lester Lake for Percy Abbott and has been copied in various forms.
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Julie
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Quote:
On 2007-01-21 10:22, Rick Fisher wrote:
The breakapart die box was manufactured by Supreme and we just recently sold one in our shop...it was very unique. Disecto was invented by Lester Lake for Percy Abbott and has been copied in various forms.


Rick

Please refer to my post above--the break-apart die box was made by Abbott's back in the 1950's (at least). I have an old magazine ad showing the "original" paint job that was unlike the contemporary one you've probably seen and much different from the Supreme product. The actual apparatus itself didn't change much though. The green boxes combined with black/red/white door design came along later.

Best regards

Julie
Michael Baker
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Ok... regarding to Steve Thomas' post about the Die Box without a noise gimmick, etc., there is a reference with illustrations in S.H.Sharpe's translation of "Ponsin on Conjuring". Perhaps someone out there has that original book by Ponsin and can check what is there, and possibly a date.

This version has a simple box with 2 front doors (like a Homer Hudson Die Box). Inside this box is a smaller box that fits nicely within, but is only half as wide. A facing strip in the front center of the larger box, together with a wall of the smaller box appears to be the center wall. The Die (shell) fits within the smaller box, which serves as a carrier for the die, thus a sliding die box. Simple and certainly would be effective today. I think I may make one to see! Smile
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Rick Fisher
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Thanks for the correction Julie...the one we had in the shop actually broke down and there were five shot glasses resting on the platform....that is one I was referring to...Rick
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Julie
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Hello Everyone!

There's a "circa 1940's" Abbott's Break-apart Die Box on one of the big auction sites now.

Julie
JL608
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Quote:
On 2007-01-21 15:21, Rick Fisher wrote:
Thanks for the correction Julie...the one we had in the shop actually broke down and there were five shot glasses resting on the platform....that is one I was referring to...Rick


Rick, I believe the one you sold is the Wessex Die Box which was invented by Bill Stickland and made by Supreme.

Joe
magicgettogether
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Abbotts Twin Di is back in stock at Abbotts

Prop at http://www.abbottmagic.com/Abbotts-Twin-Di-ABBtwindi.htm

Demo at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1NsPamAkUo

Look for many of the old props from Abbotts to make returns this year and next
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Roslyn
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I started a new thread about the Die Box to Tray of Drinks here: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&forum=8

I hadn't seen or heard of it until I re-watched an old Tommy Cooper episode where he does the trick.

In the new thread it's mentioned that this was an Arthur Culpin trick. Further research has found he made and sold just 15 of these.

The mentioning of the Wessex later in that thread brought me here.

I'm wondering who actually invented the Die Box to Drinks Tray. Was it Strickland or Culpin? Are they even the same trick?
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Roslyn
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The next few posts are screen captures of Tommy doing the trick.
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Roslyn
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Hmmm... Well, that didn't work.

So I've uploaded them to my Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/russelerwood/po......640246:0

I'm assuming this is the Supreme/Strickland version.

And this is what was sold at auction in Feb of this year (2015) as the Arthur Culpin version: https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/335......-ca-1955
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