Have any of you ever used or seen someone use a thumb tie in a strolling routine? If so, how did it go? Any thoughts on this?

Thank you, and if you have a favorite, feel free to say where you know it from.

I still can't figure out how to learn the damm thing.

I’ve used a thumb tie in many different venues including walk around at a party. The version I use is the single rope method. It is angle proof, the spectators can be right on top of you (and they should be), and can be played for broad humor.

My routine involves using one spectator as a foil.

I have the thumbs tied as tightly as possible, covered with a bandana, and then begin doing the bits of business:

Hand comes out from under the bandana and adjusts it then darts back under.
Spectator inspects the tie and recovers the hands,

Hand comes out from under bandana and scratches head as if thinking about how to escape then darts back under bandana and flips bandana off the back of the hands (held by the fingertips) to inspect the knot.

Spectator inspects knot again and again recovers the hands with the bandana.
Hand immediately comes out from under the bandana and moves the spectator to the other side of performer. Darts back under hank and has spectator remove bandana to inspect the tie again. Leave the bandana off, have the spectator fold it up and hold it tightly in both hands (making a loop with his/her arms) and link to the spectator’s arm and drag them a step or two forward.

Have spectator unlink by letting go with one side of the hank.

Etc.

OK that is the basic routine. I have ended by admitting, “defeat” at not being able to get out of the tie (gets a laugh) and having the spectator untie the rope (I have the rope tied in a bow to facilitate this).

Or, as the spectator unlinks with me I simply step behind him moving to the other side releasing myself and dropping the knotted length of rope into my pocket. When I get to the other side of the individual, I am holding my hands together as if still tied. I ask them to recover the hands and as they do so simply reach out and shake their hands. The rope has vanished. It usually gets a good reaction.

Additional note: If there is an open backed chair (kitchen chair, ladder back chair, folding chair) I will contrive to become linked to it during the routine.

Props: One 8 to ten-inch length of soft magician’s rope or one shoelace of about the same length and one pocket-handkerchief or bandana.

I actually carry a shoelace that is about a half-inch wide and 14-inches long. It is used for a simple knot routine, a ring and rope routine, and this thumb tie routine. I get a lot of magic from just carrying a shoelace, bandana, and heavy finger ring.

I use the index finger method (folded into the palm) method of thumb tie. It is just too easy to perform.

By the way I learned this from bar magician Jim Ryan in Chicago in about 1976. He did it in a bar! I was using "The Red Tape" (Irv Weiner) and the "Jasperneese" thumb tie (Jay Marshell) up to that point.

Frank, learning a thumb tie routine takes having someone to help. You simply cannot do it alone. Get a friend (spouse, etc.) to tie you up by whatever method you use and walk through/block the bits of business you want to use.

This kind of routine is like most escapes. You have to do it for real people to get the rhythm and flow. It is something that is polished by doing not by practicing.

Work out (write) your basic script and go do it! My outline above is my basic script for that tie. I have another script and different stunts for "Red Tape" and yet another for the "Jaspernese" thumb tie (done with twist ties).

Frank the Jaspernese thumb tie from Magic Inc. is probably the easiest.

Harry is right, it takes 2 to learn well.

I can't think of anyone I know that would not tie up my thumbs and just sit back with a few beers and watch and laugh at me as I begged them to undo my *** thumbs.

Well, thanks guys, got the info I was looking for.
Much appreciated,
Rmax

Frank, with the simple (oh so simple) Jim Ryan method your "friends" can pull the rope as tight as they want. In fact, the tighter the better. It makes no difference, you're out instantly!

The Twist Tie version (Jasperneese Thumb Tie) is more delicate. It is not about tying tightly but about having a couple of wires twisted around your thumbs. You are out before they actually begin twisting.

The Red Tape version is a real fooler. Your thumbs are openly taped together with plastic tape (I use black electricians tape not the red tape that Irv used, it just looks meaner!). Again you are out almost as soon as the taping is done!

There are dozens (maybe over 100) different versions of the Thumb Tie. There is no way your friends can tie you up and you not get out using them.

Pick one and perform it. They are truly “pack flat, play big” bits. They can be performed anywhere, street, club, large theater stage, living room, table hopping, close-up, anywhere!

At one time I thought I might like to incorporate a thumb tie.
One that I liked with used elastic bands. I never presented it though.
Thumb cuffs crossed my mind too.

Harry's mention of the shoelace has me reconsidering since the lace can be used for other things. Thanks Harry.
Harry, is the shoelace thumb tie published?
I'll have to check the Tarbells.

Jim Ryan's Thumb tie is published in the Jim Ryan issue of MUM. My stuff is boxed up right now so I cannot give you the exact reference.

A version can be found in Mark Cannon's lecture notes "21st Century Escape Lecture". I don't think that Mark's is as strong a handling as he misses some of the little details that Ryan used (Ryan's uses interlaced fingers and a more natural/deceptive steal, but Mark's works and it may just be a matter of what I’m used to.

Shawn Ness (Cafe' member X-treem) also includes a version in one of his booklets (again it is packed away and I don't remember the exact reference. He's a member of the Café so you could email him).

Neither Mark nor Shawn give any reference or credit and most likely have simply stumbled on the "workings" of the trick independently. But then Jim didn’t claim to invent the necessary move, he only claimed to refine the handling and develop a killer routine.

I use the shoelace for a "sliding and vanishing knot routine" and a "ring and cord" type routine.

It does not get more compact for walk-around. A shoelace, a clean linen handkerchief, (or rayon breast pocket handkerchief or, even as I use, a bandana), and a large finger ring gives you almost 12 minutes of magic with one routine segueing into the next. It doesn’t get lighter to carry or easier to perform.

Heck throw in a deck of cards, a pen knife (or borrow a steak knife if working a restaurant), and your wallet (card to wallet) and you’ve got almost 45 minutes of magic (or more depending on what you can do with cards!).

Thank you for your help guys, as you said harry, packs small, plays big.
I am looking for a thumb tie using electrical tape, not rope or string. Where is a good source for this stype thumb tie? Additionally, what do you think of Losander's Thumb tie, it uses a chain, and electrial tape?

Thanks for the help guys!

Not sure but if you have the Tarbell Course look in volume 4.

I have yet to get Tarbell... I need to get it, I know.
Thank you though, that's one source.

If you want to have your thumbs taped together then you should buy Irv Weiner’s “The Red Tape”. It is the original of the trick, still the best, and still made and sold. General Grant makes and sells it. I think that Hank Lee has it listed. It comes with a roll of red plastic tape. I have used black electricians tape for years (easier to find and easily recognizable). It costs around $30.00 (more or less).

Losander’s version is similar in handling but the thumb is taped to the forefinger. It is very limited as to the routine and bits of business that you can perform. It costs about $70.00.

I bought "The Red Tape" from Gen Grant a few months ago so it's probably still available from him.

Thanks for the tip about the black tape, Harry. You're right, it's much easier to find and draws no heat.

So "The Red Tape" is the way to go huh?
Alright, what is Gen Grants website?

Mr. Murphy, thank you for all your help, much appreciated!
Posted: Feb 28, 2006 9:13pm
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Please?
Posted: Mar 1, 2006 1:26am
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All I need is one person to tell me the website that sells The Red Tape routine.
Anyone? please? I will shut up, I swear.

General Grant can be contacted at :

ggmagic@aol.com

I just ordered one a few days ago and he has them in stock

He doesn't have a website that I'm aware of, but the e-mail Barry provided will indeed put you in touch with him.

I've been using Irv Weiner's Red Tape Thumb Tie for about twenty years now and I can only say that this is a KILLER! Because I have slightly swollen joints on my thumbs that precludes me doing the thumbcuffs or a regular thumbtie, this method has been a lifesaver.

And the gags that you can use with it are legion, too!

But, unlike my colleague Harry, I have no problem finding the red tape at all. Home Depot stocks it as people are using it for decorating these days as well as for electrical work.

Highest recommendation!

Lee Darrow, C.H.

Guys:

Thanks for the thoughts, especially Harry, for you routine ideas.

I have a question though. I've seen several methods in Tarbell & the Encyclopedia of Rope Tricks, and 33 rope ties and chain releases:

Ency of Rope: Thumb Tie - Eddie Joseph, & Thumb Tie Extraordinary

Tarbell:
4 Ten Ichi Tump Tie: full routine
271 Modernized: Uses one cord instead of two
272 Tip Top Thumb Tie: ties thumbs first
274 Chow Sen Thumb Tie
275 Frank Ducot Thumb Tie: uses two cords
276 Jack Miller Thumb Tie: Frank Ducot variation
277 Tarbell's Simplex Thumb Tie
279 Tarbell's Li King Thumb Tie
280 Tarbell Tape Tie
281 Tarbell's Chinese Thumb Tie: tape, not really tied
283 Mel Forrester's Rubber Band thumb tie (good!)


Is Ryan's method much better than all of these? If so, how?

Thanks
John