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Dr Marvin
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It seems like we as magicians hate exposure, but then I click on to the Street Magic section here, and people seem to be wanting to pick apart tricks by Angel, Blaine, or Cyril. "They ask were can I get that?" or "How did he do that?" and then we will respond with "He uses a TT and then does this move or that move...etc.." I think that if we want other people to respect us as artists and not expose us then we need to first start to respecting other magicians first. I know that you just want to learn, but imitating what another person has done is not helping you or your art. If you’re a musician you don’t play other peoples songs, you come up with your own. And if you a painter you just don’t paint other people's paintings, you come up with your own. So please stop exposing!

Dr Marvin
2-25-06
Dannydoyle
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You are forgeting one thing in your equasion.

The huge majority of people on this board do NOT perform magic for a living. They are magic "enthueasists". (spelled that one way wrong).

They look at things a lot different. It does not make them bad or good or right or wrong, just a different reason for learning what they learn.Sometimes it is more about "knowing" than actually doing.

Just my 2 cents.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
FatTony
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In a real life scenario, when has "exposure" from these boards ever made a difference in your daily life, magical or not? Has it really affected anything that you do?
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed. - Einstein
Dr Marvin
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Saying exposure is wrong in this case, but right in another is contradicting yourselves. Exposure is exposure, no matter how big or little it is! So I guess the masked magician specials were good too!

Dr Marvin
2-25-06
Randwill
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What about when a laymen walks into a magic store and asks to buy one of those "plastic thumb thingies" he's heard about? The dealer pulls out a Thumb Tip and sells it to him. BAM! Major exposure!

Whatever will we do? After all, "exposure is exposure."
FatTony
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I agree, Dr Marvin. Exposure is not a good thing, regardless of how big or little. Good point.

But, it will always be around. No matter how much we complain.
The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed. - Einstein
Dannydoyle
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Reminds me of the old joke about the women who won't date the guy.

he says how about a million dollars and she say sure. He says how about 10? and she says "what do you think I am, a lady of the evening?". to that the guy responds "we already know what you are, I am just negotiating a price!"

Magic shops strike me as being in this catagory. Sorry. I worked one for 10 years. The ONLY qualification for buying secrets, is to have enough money. Plain and simple. Sorry dealers but you are in the business of selling secrets to anyone willing to buy.

So when exposure is yapped about we need to start looking pretty close at ourselvs.

How many of our books are in Waldenbooks? Mark Wilson course sure is. Magic for Dummies and so forth. Forget the masked magician. OTHERS have exposed longer than he has and for less money.

So I guess we have to define "even a little exposure" now don't we?

What do we do have tests for magic sales? What about this board itself? Lots of exposure here too.

The solution to me is to realise magic is about entertaiment, and NOT about the secrets we keep. Entertain an audience and they will be forever greatfull.

Also stick with skill tricks and keep away from marketed effects and people will not really know what it is you are doing.

Just food for thought.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
CasualSoul
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Magic is a hobby for me, but it is a hobby I take seriously. When it comes to exposure, I think, for the most part, forums like this one actually do a reasonably fair job at preventing exposure as most magicians adhere to the "Code". Sure, if you have spent any time shopping at an on-line magic store you will be able to figure out what a TT is, but most people do not want to invest the time into deciphering all the lingo to put the pieces together to understand what we're even talking about on these forums. Even people who have seen a TT in their children's magic kit wouldn't know what a TT was, how powerful it can be, or even know to look for it when watching a magic performance. The only way they find these things out is through blatant exposure, like the Fox TV special we all hate, or by taking the time to learn, which is exactly what we have all done. If all magical secrets were relegated only to "closed" organizations like The Magic Castle, then innovations would not be as prevalent. Having a vibrant, growing magic community prevents the craft from becoming stagnant.
"Open their mind by performing the impossible"
Greg Arce
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But here's the rub... supposedly most people here are in the inside and know the rules... SUPPOSEDLY we should follow the code of not exposing others secrets and respecting other people's acts and effects... BUT all you see here is, especially after it is seen on a video, "Does anyone know how that works?" Or worse, "I figured it out, it's easy, all he did was use a..."
Somehow many believe because they figured something out it is time to tell everyone how it works. And worse, they seem to think because they figured it out it is less valuable... like only stuff that completely fools you makes it good.
How about this? Keep you mouth and fingers shut if it isn't your effect, presentation or idea. How about only putting stuff you've invented here. How about respecting the time and effort others put into their ideas and not talking about it or trying to figure it out by using the forum as a collective brain.
How about being the first one to buy a product and reviewing it for everyone instead of being the type of person that will only buy what others have reviewed first. How about watching creative people like Brown, Cyril, etc, and thinking, "Wow, I have to work more on magic and presentations to make the original like those guys" and not, "Where can I get THAT!!!"
I see many great performers at The Castle and many times I've been fooled badly, but I wouldn't think of approaching them and saying, "How did that work?" But here it seems to be a standard question when you are fooled... so do you like it when spectators question you after your demonstrations and only want to know how it's done? And do you tell them in the same easy way that it is expected here when someone asks how it's done?
I know it's not going to change.There's always going to be a large group that actually believes that collecting tricks and ideas is the path to success... we'll probably never see anything new come from them or attend one of their lectures or buy one of their books because they will never advance that way.. but for those that actually want to become a better magician by actually trying to be creative and thinking about their style, magic and presenations,then I hope you realize that part of that success path is respecting others and their ideas.
Just my opinion.

Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
Tony Iacoviello
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Greg:
That is an opinion I share. Thank you

Tony
Michael J. Douglas
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Preach on, Brotha Greg! Can I get an amen?
Michael J.
�Believe then, if you please, that I can do strange things.� --from Shakespeare�s �As You Like It�
mantix
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I disagree.

This forum is for people who share an interest in magic.

If we want to ask each other questions or discuss possible methods there's nothing wrong with that, so long as it doesn't violate the forum rules.

If you don't want to answer questions or discuss possible methods there's nothing wrong with that either.
Dannydoyle
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Spoken like someone looking for a short cut
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Greg Arce
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Quote:
On 2006-02-25 23:21, Dannydoyle wrote:
Spoken like someone looking for a short cut


How true, Danny, how true. Apparently, Mantrix, I struck a nerve with you... sorry... go back to collecting effects and trying to take other people's secrets. I won't bother you... of course, I'm assuming you are extemely happy when spectators ask you how it's done and you give them the correct answers... because, of course, you would want the same thing in this forum.

I'm sure I'll never see you perform or read any of your effects so have fun doing what you do. To the choir, who understands, I'll see you on other threads that don't deal with trying to take other people's ideas or try to justify doing so.

Greg Smile
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
frenchmagi
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Look, the truth of the matter is that no one finds the Magic Café unless they've developed a sincere interest in magic. As far as exposure is concerned, anything that's been exposed on these boards has not been exposed to the general public.


Posted: Feb 26, 2006 12:47am
----------------------------------------------
And from what I've witnessed most magicians on this board are more than happy to "share" their secrets...for the right price.
Greg Arce
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Quote:
On 2006-02-26 00:47, raphlo2 wrote:
And from what I've witnessed most magicians on this board are more than happy to "share" their secrets...for the right price.

Key word: THEIR
It's okay to sell or share YOUR secret... not others. It seems that everyone here thinks that if it can be downloaded or uploaded then it's free for the taking.. as if viewing a performance video is some sort of free lecture.
I said this analogy once before: I'm sure I can get an astute computer hacker to hack into someone's bank and get their pin number. Now, because I got it via the internet does it make it cool for me to then start taking out money from this person's account? Would you like it if others took and sold your personal info via the internet?
Just because we can, doesn't me we should do something. Viewing another magician's performance and marveling at it is great... dissecting it in an open forum is not... especially if it's not dissecting to figure out staging, presentational angles, use of common sleights, but dissecting it to actually figure it out and in the long run, put it into your own act.
Awhile back I said I was happy that Cyril was not known here and I got flack from it from some on these threads. I angered people because I said people would want to copy and steal his stuff... I didn't have to be much of a mentalist to predict what is already happening. I knew it would and it has.
It's a pity.
Just my opinion.

Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
mantix
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You're complaining about the posting behavior of people on this forum, you're taking personal shots at my character, and you're telling us what is "okay" and "not okay" to do.

Quote:
The Magic Café pledge
--------------------------

If I think others' Café behavior is incorrect, I will not respond, complain, comment, or correct. I will ignore. I will lead by positive example and let the Café staff handle it.



That's all I'm sayin.
Greg Arce
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Quote:
On 2006-02-26 13:15, mantix wrote:
You're complaining about the posting behavior of people on this forum, you're taking personal shots at my character, and you're telling us what is "okay" and "not okay" to do.

Quote:
The Magic Café pledge
--------------------------

If I think others' Café behavior is incorrect, I will not respond, complain, comment, or correct. I will ignore. I will lead by positive example and let the Café staff handle it.



That's all I'm sayin.


So I guess in your world talking back to someone is a bad as stealing stuff... why stop there... I guess you might as well go rob a bank or kidnap someone since you seem to hold all misconduct on the same level.

Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
Dannydoyle
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I think instead of "magicians helping magicians" the slogan should be something like

"magicians confirming other magicians fallacies".

People get mad when they are wrong, and called on it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
frenchmagi
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I agree completely with Greg. The problem with this BBoard is that magicians from all levels have access to it. I think that more experienced magicians, or working magicians, have developed respect for other peoples work, while more novice magicians are trying to get their hands on everything. I've always thought that you should have to pass some sort of test to have access to these boards, for that reason.
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