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James Adamson Special user Deatsville - Holtville - Slapout, AL 945 Posts |
I put the following in the the proper section and did not get an answer, so I will post it here, which is the most direct forum.
Who is credited with combining Dove Productions & Card Manipulation in their act? It is so inbred now that card productions are used in the vast majority of dove acts. The other question is what is the tie-in or logic to have cards in a dove act? If you think about I don't see one. James Adamson http://www.seam2006.com
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
Doves - cards? I'd have to say Channing Pollack.
It is my understanding that a magician donning a serape and sombrero was the first of what are known today as the modern dove workers. His photograph is in the Marian Chavez Dove Encyclopedia, as well as, a dove production featuring the one and only Slydini. Many have heard of Slydini, but, few have heard of Cantu (the dove worker) who died in a car accident while in Atlanta, GA. I know that doves and pigeons have been used for years, but, before the modern dove worker - doves usually made their appearance from pans, boxes or capes.
POOF!
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cardone Special user 860 Posts |
I think you are right ... Pollack was the man......
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James Adamson Special user Deatsville - Holtville - Slapout, AL 945 Posts |
If he is the one then OK.
I will repeat the 2nd question. The other question is what is the tie-in or logic to have cards in a dove act? If you think about I don't see one. We as magicians always talk about theme, character, etc., or is it just a case of the audience accepting it just being magic that a magician does? James Adamson http://www.seam2006.com
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
Have you ever done a dove act with more than five body loads? Sure you can do billiard balls, but, cards, candles and scarves fit into places without giving the appearance that your wardrobe is made out of lumpy grits.
POOF!
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
James, I would say there is no 'tie-in' and there does not have to be. You are a magician doing magic for the audience. That is what the magician chooses to produce.
You must have reason for your question, so maybe if you give an explaination as to why you must justify your act and it contents would help Café members to understand you need to have a reason. Fred Kaps a world class 3 time winner of FISM competition works with money, large coins, salt, vanishing cane, and candles. What do these items have common and to be a logical reason to work together. I guess you could also ask why Norm Neilsen books himself as musical magic, and then produces cards and coins. |
James Adamson Special user Deatsville - Holtville - Slapout, AL 945 Posts |
The reason I asked the second question is that there has just been a lot of discussion over the last few months about theme, character, etc. But after reviewing a lot of different acts one finds that there are changes from one type of theme or type of magic without any direct connection between the effects in the same act.
Example here was doves and cards. As you said there is no "tie-in". So what I am seeing that maybe (?) too much emphasis is being put in a themed, and/or character act. That the audience just wants good magic for magic's sake. As long as they accept you as being able to perform that magic then any combination is fine. James Adamson http://www.seam2006.com
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
I've always thought that magic is not about sense or logic, therefor it can be whatever the magician decides. Flowing, smooth segues help to move the show forward and are more suited to my audiences tastes.
POOF!
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
James, in my opinion, an entire act does not have to be themed. In my act, for example, I open with my dove routine which includes a few silk effects like 20th century silks and a torn and restored newspaper, each of which end with a dove production. Each effect in that segment leads or segues into the next and causes the act to be presented smoothly. The effects cause me to smoothly work my way across the stage so that at the end of the segment, I'm positioned to begin the next which has nothing to do with doves. To me, nothing looks worse than a magician end a routine and then walking across the stage for the next. It seems like just a bunch of tricks rather than an act.
My second segment, works with parlor/stage effects and has absolutely nothing to do with the first. My final segment is manipulation with candles, billiard balls, a large silk production and ends with the production of a bird cage. The cage tends to close the loop between my opening and closing effect but there is no standard theme throughout the routine. In that regard, if you were going to do a card manipulation act, producing the first fan from a silk for example, after producing doves, would be a natural move but again, doesn't necessarily follow a theme.
Where the magic begins
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Christopher Moro Special user 793 Posts |
I think themed acts are a bit over-rated. They tend to do very well in magic contests because many magicians are looking for something more than just a standard, entertaining magic act, however strong it may be. The audience on the other hand knows good entertainment when they see it -- and often, when they see it, it is not themed. Or, a theme is not necessary to entertain them well. And at times, the focus on theme can take away from the impact of an act.
But I'm certainly not saying this is true in all cases. And I also think that striving for a unifying theme in an act is the "right" goal for a magician whose interested in elevating his magic. It's a noble goal too, for the art. And so, I think perhaps cards got combined with doves because of the strong audience response: The Entertainment Value, not anything related to theme. |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
What all the post on character, story, etc. is much like an actor in the film industry. Understanding who you represent and trying to get that over to your audience is what these strings have been discussing. So, the performer will stay in character. You can play yourself, if you wish, that is if you have analyzed who you are and how other preceive you as a person and the one on stage.
You do not have to be a character that is not you. Some say, Cardini was a Playboy man about town character. Fred Kaps was a man that the magic happened to him. I do not know what Norm Nielsen's character is, maybe a musician. Lancer Burton changed his character from the man with the magnetic stare, so I am lost at his character. Mr. Electric is a man with a lot of voltage within him. If you can put on paper your character and then stay in character during your performance, then you will have the connection between the magic and the person. Jeff McBride really lives his character, as does Phil Goldstein. This is the way I see your question and I hope I have touched on answering it. MAGIC4U02 really can answer your question as he has written tons of messages on this topic. |
James Adamson Special user Deatsville - Holtville - Slapout, AL 945 Posts |
Magic4u2 and I have talked many times and he is very knowledgeable and thinks a little differently than others in a good way.
Sequencing to me seems to be what can tie all the different parts of an act. So I believe it is fair to say as long as you the performer relates to the audience with your performance and that they like it then it does not matter one way or the other if the act is themed or not. James Adamson http://www.seam2006.com
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
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