Brendan,

You wrote:
"the protocols" as a term has a well defined reputation and generally only used nowdays to either offend, denegrate or self promote.

I am not working to offend, denegrate, or self promote. I think you must be thinking of some other sort of protocols rather than the ones that I follow.

By the way, one of my favorite protocols is AppleTalk, but it just doesn't scale well unfortunately.

Following the protocols,
Jordan

Oh, Brendan - are you not aware of the magic of make-up?

:)

Thankyou for your kind words... and innocently loaded

OK...

Honestly, I have never been aware at how I might come across before. It was only a little while ago when words spoken buy someone (with whom I trust with the welfare of my soul) convinced me that I could get people's attention. It came when I was in a depressed state and thought I couldn't entertain for nuts - that no-one would want to really watch what I do. I tried to see what this person meant - so I tried a few things.

I guess being a bit of a tomboy - hanging out with the boys when I was younger, caving, rockclimbing, hiking, I thought I was just another boy to them (guys) and never thought I was attractive at all.

Anyway - I've tried to think of myself as a 'girl' now, and accepting boys being boys - humoured myself that it maybe it could be possible that I might be able to draw attention. So yeah - for a couple of months, now - I've used that subtle 'power' thing that stuart was alluding to. And, it works! So, yes, I use it

Oh - and this is what I meant when I said that girls can have an advantage in magic if they use what they've got, properly.

Jordan, guess you you know why TCP was such a hit then huh. I do have a particularly vitriolic response to use of the term and still think any use such as in a sig is provocative, but I'm sensitive and delicate.

Sue-Anne - My kind words were not meant to be loaded, and perhaps you are right about my make up knowledge, I met my wife when we were both avid rock climbers (another tom boy)and she wears makeup maybe half a dozen times a year.

And if I say you're attractive then you damm well are and don't argue with me. *g* Ask Tim, he'll back me on this one.

As for using what you got, I wish I had big muscles or something to distract the ladies and perhaps a beer keg on my back for the guys.

I'm sure you don't need big muscles and a keg!

Yep Brendan, I'll back you up, she's attractive alright!

Hey Sue-Anne,
nah nah nanah nah
Told you so

Wow, this is going strange places. Ok so to sum things up. Women have some powers over men. Sue-Anne is Gorgeous. Tim Agrees. something about Max and protocols that I don't understand. We should respect Tarot (I have no problem with that.) People use deception (we have go to accept that.) Women are different than men. We entertain and perform magic differently.

Specifically to Jordan: I get where you are going, and I do respect the fact that many people use such things as Tarot, I-Ching, etc... To give themselves a different perspective on their lives. I truely respect that and would not want to downplay this practice. HOWEVER, I do not call these practices truely psychic. Or these people truely psychic. And I will state agiain that I would be very happy to find someone who IS truely psychic. And as far as I have found the closest to psychic out there are performers who undrestand how to work the room well.

It is true however that there are many people in the world of the Occult who pray on the uninformed. They use ignorance and many methods we use to keep people coming back and spending more, diluting them with nonsense. This IS Deception. Any psychic fair is full of it. Aside from that I know I should ignore your comment as I am only breeding rebuttle. BUT, (sorry everyone,) I need to ask why you feel the need to negate everything I say. The responce to the idea of "killing the audience," for example. Yes comics use it too. Yes not everyone uses these expressions. But it seems that you find the intrest in power to be a negative. There are, as in all things, negative aspects to seeking power. But, I state this as an observation of something natural. As a performer I love the power I feel, the love I feel the feeling of 'in the moment' I get from being on stage. I don't think it is wrong. It just is. It makes me feel great. A great show is one of the best feelings in the world. And none of us will get anywhere without a little self promotion. That is all. There is power and you can't deny it. I never said I thought it was wrong. I made the observation to point out the reasons people get into this stuff to begin with. Lets be honest here.

AND back to the topic:

I'd say men are men, women are women, and magicians are magicians- usually male or female.

I've been thinking things over this last week... and Chrystal may have a point with the numbers increasing significantly over the next 20 years. Maybe sooner.

We have an active magic shop in Australia - Tammii Twister's Magic Factory - where the owners are encouraging children, many of whom are girls, to perform magic. I don't know where it's going to take them, eventually - but the boys are growing up with the girls thinking that girls involved in magic is a natural thing. They're sessioning with them like it's a perfectly normal thing to do.

A magician I was chatting to, today reckoned that females are far more prone to get out there and do the entertaining. He's observed that the majority of men might be EXCELLENT at practising - but so many are not willing to perform. Considering the NUMBERS of men doing magic - it's not for lack of work that they're not out performing. Men just LOVE to practise - a bit like women doing things they like, like sewing or painting/drawing or doing crafty things in their spare time. He reckons it's only a matter of time when females are encouraged into magic practise as their thing to do in their spare time. But, he reckons that they are MORE LIKELY to get out and perform.

Interesting. It could be like any of the arts, once they start - like singing and acting where LOADS of females have infiltrated those performance areas - whereas once there weren't.

Gotta tell you... at this magic shop - the owners of the Magic Café attached have a little girl, 3 years old. She assists her uncle in magic classes - then takes over when a customer comes in the shop and her uncle has to leave the class. VERY funny. She makes suggestions to thirteen year old boys what and how to perform - and they actually take her seriously and do what she says.

I saw her sessioning with a twelve year old boy today - working on a coin routine. I couldn't believe it - they were both having a ball!! 3 YEARS OLD! It's all so natural

My daughter is 5, maybe I am waiting to long to send her to magic school.

Hi Again,

A couple years ago I had the opportunity to fill in for a magician friend of mine whom had for many years taught magic at a All Girls Performance Camp/School in NY. There were 350 girls to 150 staff whom were employed from around the world. The girls took subjects like theater, magic, dance, and a host of other activities. I was hired as Director of Magic and taught 6 classes per day, six days per week. Those that were further interested were free to attend the more enhanced classes at the end of the day.
The magic taught were the basics (readily found in any public library book). The girls were encouraged to come up with their own personas and patter and present to the rest of us. Those that showed they were serious and wanted to pursue it further were encouraged to perform at the year end show. It was obvious which ones did and I'm hoping that perhaps in years to come, I'll some day run into them again. My friend returned from his hiatus after his wife gave birth to twins and resumed his position. It was one of the greatest experiences and I'd do it again!

Chrystal

Keep in mind that I've sort of been a comic for a while now, and that sort of affects my thinking on this subject, but I think my point will be the same.

When I see a working pro I am always delighted because the vast majority of the time the working pro (provided magic is his/her only living) has to be something special to make this their full time ocupation. Whenever I see a woman doing fulltime entertainment I know I am in for a treat. The reason is that women usually have to work much harder to get noticed because the entertainment field is so male dominated. Maybe it's just me, but I also find that women usually have a closer attention to detail than men do. Sure we with the Y chromosome tend to get fixated on something, but our X chromosome counterparts just have a keener eye most of the time.

As for women to watch in Magic there is a woman out in Vegas, I don't remember her name but I think she does close-up at the Belagio. She did the anything deck, and completely floored me. Also Angela Funovits has made a few waves of her own. Is it just me, or do women have a much softer touch with a deck of cards? I've only seen one woman who was rough with the cards, and let's put it this way, she was a rather rough woman herself. I didn't realize how much metal you could get into a persons face. Of course she wasn't a pro, so I'll give her time.

These type of comments are what get me on "female magician" threads. The implication that a female magician is some kind of phenomenon. The shock and awe that a BOY might think a female magician is natural and normal. Female magicians themselves perpetuate stereotyping and defeat their own cause much of the time.

There's no "shock and awe" magiclaurie - only observations. History has shown clearly why females are stereotyped as assistants. It's also clear that as time moves on and access becomes easier for both male and female in this area of the arts, that it'll be perfectly natural that females will come to be more prominant in the magical arts.

Belinda Sinclaire from New York is a lady making some great moves in more than just the performance of magic. I'll leave her projects to unfold, but they are of great benefit to magicians and the public. There are other ladies doing some exciting work in magic, not just the performance side - which are great indications of a more solid foundation for females to use and be inspired to move ahead and do great work.

Exciting times ahead.

Back in my day - I didn't see any magic. I only saw half naked girls in glittery dresses alongside men in top hats that were strangely out of date.

Elly May,
I wish that you would be a "Guest of Honor" here.
We could use a bit of good, christian, charitable thinking around here.
Peace,
Parson