I wondered what peoples opinions were on how well the moves on Sal's DVD would hold up in the "real world".

The perils of not having an obviously available "Search" function.

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=111

Wow!! Welcome to the magic Café to me! Well, card cheat, thank you for rolling out the welcome mat from your royal throne built from all 110 of your expertly informed posts.

Well, yes.... Welcome to the Café. I always try not to say the "M" word; nothing personal.


Hmmm... have you read all 110 of my posts? I don't think so! Anyhow, the kind words are appreciated all the same. Royal throne? Well that will most certainly start some sort of pi55ing contest; this should be fun to watch.

Around here, the value of my contributions varies from member to member; if you know what I mean. Anyway, welcome....

CC

No, card cheat, I don't know what you mean. Please elaborate. The value of your contribution would have weighed favorably for me if you would have given a less sarcastic reply. And thank you for setting me straight on how things work "around here". I really thought the purpose of this forum was for magicians to help magicians.

I can't get a copy of it.. Dam*** Because I live in Europe. Or can I, anyone who knows?

MagicKim: I just saw a copy on ebay the other day. Maybe a seller on ebay can ship overseas. I got my copy from http://www.pocketacesllc.net
Good Luck! It's worth the effort.

There was no sarcasm in my post, it can't be any less sarcastic than it was.

Card cheat: I have read several other posts on this topic. The posts that I read were from a few users that have seen the dvd, but there were also some from users that had not. I guess you have no other contributions on this topic of any value, so please keep your two cents for a rainy day. It's not that I'm uneducated on the topic of cheating, I just enjoy hearing other peoples opinions. I think Sal's dvd was exceptional, but I wanted to see if other people thought these moves would really withstand the litmus test of live play.

The real world is big place and what might hold up on your kitchen table, might fall down at other places, like casinos, and the other way around. I ain't got Sals DVD but I'm sure everything will stand or fall someplace at the right or wrong time in the real world.

Thank you Tommy. If someone were going to cheat at a casual kitchen table game... when do you think the best time to cheat might be? Is there a move that you prefer or know is very successful? I ran across a cheat one time that used a deck of belly strippers and a pretty rough looking pass to cheat local "street pharmacists" in a game called tunk. This game is very similiar to rummy.

Well when you saw that what did you do?

Doc

P.S. The word Tunk is spelled Tonk

Abracadizzle, you will find myriad types of people here, with many varied answers. Undoubtedly, the majority of the people you'll find here are magicians and bedroom cheats. My suggestion would be to pay close attention to what people reply. You will soon discover, who knows from moving in real life and who doesn't.

Tommy's post really sums it up, nothing further should be added. The example you posted of the cheat should say it all.

my question to you is, if you had already seen the other thread containing Sal's Dvd, along with peoples opinions, why did you re-ask the question? I understand there were replies from people who hadn't seen it yet, but, as you pointed out, there were also posts by people who had. Perhaps, the posts you read were not satisfying... that's understandable, many times they are not.

My suggestion to you would be to look around the internet. there is one forum, in particular, that's dedicated to "cardsharping".

Finally, I am sure, had you given CC a chance, he would have contributed something of value, something that would have satisfied your curiosity... I have learned more than once, silence is bliss!

Halcon

My personal opinion is that may of the moves on Sal's DVD can and are used in the real world. So, if you want to see these moved exposed, Sal's DVD is very good.

On the downside, if you are hoping to learn the mechanics of these moves or subtleties which make these moves really deceptive you WILL NOT find that information on the DVD. (For example, while he does go into some detail on some moves like the jog overhand shuffle....you can obtain a lot more information in "Expert at the Card Table" book.)

Sal's DVD is not a teaching DVD, it is an exposure DVD, so people know what to look for....so they will not be cheated. Sal does not even market it as a teaching DVD.

If you want to learn the mechanics of seconds, stocks, bottoms, hold-outs/palming, etc. the best material is in books and/or pamphetets. While some really good material is in print, your odds of finding it taught on DVD is much more difficult.

You see, many people want credit (so they put moves in print), but, really don't want it to get around, so they will leave it off the DVD.

Everyone knows that people don't like to read...so like the old saying says... "If you want to hide something, put it in print ".

BOTTOM LINE: If you want to see an excellent mechanic do moves, then the DVD is great. But, if you want to learn how to execute the sleights yourself.....Read a book or look elsewhere. By the way, the DVD is also very professionally done.

PS: I hope Sal decideds, in the future, to put together a teaching DVD on each of the sleights, so people can actually use his technique and (more importantly) subleties and timing issues associated with each move.

Doc: I wasn't a part of the game that was being played. He makes a very nice living with moves and methods that some people would call a little bold. If I remember correctly, he can pull the lower cards when he needs to. I have never known him to be caught. The man runs a mean juice table also. I think this is the majority of his income.

Abracadizzle:

You might want to hold off jumping on a respected member of this mini-forum. CC is quite knowledgable and burning that bridge before you even get a chance to cross it is not necessarily a wise idea. As you will soon find out (if you are around long enough) is that MANY of the users here will direct you to the search function when it is apparent that someone did not try to use it to get the answer to their own question. To paraphrase halcon a tad bit differently, I will leave you with a quote my old man was fond of (and I learned through life was generally good advice):

"Sometimes it is better to keep your mouth shut and appear to be a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"

Have a nice day and welcome to the Café. I hope your stay becomes less bumpy.

Michael

Michael: That is a very nice bit of advice. Whether or not CC is a wealth of knowledge is to be determined. The magic community is often cold and ego-driven and can make for an awkward first impression for newcomers. I'm not new to magic or gambling and have no respect or tolerance for people that are nasty or condescending to others for reasons of their own. My first post in this forum was greeted with less than open arms. This "good-ole-boy" mentality that people in this community embrace is what turns so many talented people away. And Michael, I'm am much more of one of the "good-ole-boys" than CC would expect. I wasn't asking for secrets or even a question that was off topic, I was just looking at this site as an additional resource. So, throw a little more gas on that bridge for me... it's not one that will help me get anywhere. For those that know me... they would all tell you that I am very polite and willing to learn.
EXPERTMAGICIAN: Thank you for your review. I really appreciate you taking the time to give me your opinion. I know that wasn't the first time you had to write that. But thank you. Sal has some great lectures. See if you can get him to come to your area and lecture on all of these sleights.

Abracadizzle,
Excellent post, and very true. Welcome to the forums. I really enjoyed Sal's DVD, it's got a real wealth of info. I'm a fan of thinking outside the box and Sal bringing in a cheat was a very clever idea. Sal has consistantly provided excellent products and this new DVD is no exception. Worth every cent- for those that don't have it, get it.
be well,
JW

Abracadizzle:

Perhaps I have opened my mouth and removed all doubt. Just to clarify, CC was a "wealth of knowledge" to me in cases where I asked for assistance with something and he responded with information and/or suggestions that were of benefit to me. Maybe you are more talented than he is. As for him being a magician, I don't know if he is or not. As to the "good-ole-boy" mentality, I dunno. for me personally, I can talk to talented folks like Jeff W (Weapons fo the Cardshark), Jason England (Shade, The Takedown, and many others) Doc (the real deal worker), etc. Each of those folks have attempted to help me out and for that I am grateful. So have some others that I have left out due to being in a hurry. I am not a good ole boy...nor have I been invited to be a good ole boy. I am not a magician and don't even consider myself to have much skill at all (but I am working on it). I would assume you are trying to tell me that you are someone of note behind your screen name? If so, tell me who.

Now...to not hijack this thread...I have Sal's DVD set (as well as the two disc set of lecture notes he did with MM). I liked the new set. If you have read the other thread in this forum on this topic, you will know that I had a couple of very minor criticisms. Some did not agree with me. In particular, I was interested in Doc's opinion of "Charlie's" holdout move in relation to my opinion of it. Certainly with his experience, I will have to re-evaluate my opinion. Other than that, I thought it was great and hope to see more material like this from Sal.

I am sorry if we got off to the wrong foot. The blame would be mine. Again, welcome to the Café.

Michael

Pardon my intrusion, but did CC not provide you with an answer, to some degree, by finding the thread for you?

I should point out that the search function is NOT obviously available, as he said above - that's why my signature reads as it does - because others may not be aware of it. His comment doesn't seem to be a comment directed towards you, in any way. I further believe that the search engine was, until recently down and out of commision. If that is true, then CC would have had to manually search to find an answer manually. Either way, he went out of his way to help you.

I don't perceive what he wrote as "sarcastic" - meaning "A cutting, often ironic remark intended to wound" - in any way. What he stated was basically fact. When one first arrives here, the search engine isn't blatantly obvious.

I think you're finding strife or attack where none existed.