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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Just a general question I have. It goes for magicians as well. How many is enough for the world we live in?
With courses turning out 30-50 at a clip, mail order courses going through the roof, at what point do we reach saturation and become a joke again? Isn't making it easy to acomplish going to come arround and bite us in the behind at some point in time?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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HypnotizeAmerica Veteran user 399 Posts |
Danny -
75% of the people who do the training or learn stage hypnosis never do anything with it. Same thing with marketing. I have a $1100 program that I haven't done anything with this year and won't be able to do until next year. My point is not everyone who gets trained does anything with it and ofthe 25% left most get knocked down with rejection or failure so I am guessing for every 100 trained hypnotist, 1 actually does something with it. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Well that makes me feel better AND worse.
Is it right to sell the stuff to the guys then knowing this? But that is a question for another day. I guess it is the equivilant of most magicians "junk drawer" is what you are saying.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Daniel Santos Special user 562 Posts |
If you'd like, you can hypnotize a bunch of people to go out and kill the aforementioned 75% and we'll just call it a "Malthusian" form of population control amongst us in the entertainment biz...
LOL Sorry, me and my lame jokes...they always start at about this time. |
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leapinglizards Inner circle 1263 Posts |
I would say the same percentage applies to clinical hypnosis trainings, and there are as many or more of those out there. Lots of folks get certified and do little or nothing with it- often because they find out it's not easy.
It has always amazed me that magic is one of the few art forms that SO many people approach as if you can buy a handful of tricks and that makes you a magician. If there was a finger to point and blame it would be at the dealers- since on the whole it really is a peculiar industry. But- it is also the fault of the public and our own- they/we tollerate it. No one would take one dance lesson and claim to be a ballerina. No one would buy a guitar and assume that they are a musician. On the other side- the ballerina wannabe will probably become a ballet enthusiast- so maybe THERE is the catch. Those 10 thousand or so magicians are part of the AUDIENCE base for those 2% (or less) of the magic folk out there who make a living at it. Now if we can teach the 10 thousand how to behave when they are around the 2% THAT would be nice.
Leaping Lizards!!! Who knew it was possible.
<BR> <BR>www.LeapingLizardsMagic.com |
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Stuart Cumberland Loyal user 289 Posts |
Scarcity vs. Abundance Thinking.
Being worried about too many hypnotists is scarcity thinking. Knowing that there's more than enough business out there for everyone, and that quality-trained hypnotists are a GOOD thing for the business is called... abundance thinking. Speaking only for myself, my "territory" is Canada and the United States. If there's profit in a deal, I'll do it. And, geographically, it is my belief that my territory affords me plenty of bookings. On a secondary note, I don't "compete" per se. I create niches and work in them... I'm the big fish in the small pond by design. Finally, that's the great reason for quality training. I'd rather have competent competitors than hacks who do stupid things and give hypnosis a bad name. That's why I recommend my friend Geoff Ronning's training. He creates competent stage hypnotists. |
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magic711 New user 27 Posts |
I toatally agree with you M&M I am a hypnotist as well ,recently, but our art has to be tot to the next generation so the magic will not die,i think some are worried about competition !i compete with nobody ecxpet myself, and darrin brown,he is the only person I have seen that is similar to my sytle og hypnosis and magic.
peace out |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
We can agree about parts and simply agree to disagree on other parts.
So as not to be uncivil as I have been accused of let me take it slow and think about what is typed. I truley mean no disrespect here. Your approach of creating nitches is dead on! Great advice I love it. Obviously the work of a pro. One thing to disagree with is the quality of hypnotist turned out in a 30 person room. It is not as high as it could be. Nuff said and not disrespectfull to anyone, only to a style of teaching. Public schools are not as good as private for they have bigger classes. I believe we can agree here at least in principal. I am not sure anyone with cattle call training sessions creates competent anything. The real problem is if you read our friend here's last post. A week ago he is asking about inductions, and suddenly he is a hypnotist telling us how to pass on our art! He is no more a hypnotist than a guy with an invisible deck only and a thumb tip is a magician. I hope we can agree on this as well. On another thread he brags about his "natural ability" to hypnotise people. Hopefully someday someone will tell him how it all really works. I am glad I got through this without ruffeling your feathers, at least it was my intent. I hope at least we agreed on some points and disagreed agreeably. If not then please correct me and I will endevor to do better.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Stuart Cumberland Loyal user 289 Posts |
Quote:
We can agree about parts and simply agree to disagree on other parts. Are you refering to me? I don't recall accusing you of being uncivil. To the best of my knowledge, you were NOT disrespectful to *me* in any way. I DID NOT take your previous criticism of my products as personal OR disrespectful. Quote:
One thing to disagree with is the quality of hypnotist turned out in a 30 person room. It is not as high as it could be. Nuff said and not disrespectfull to anyone, only to a style of teaching. Public schools are not as good as private for they have bigger classes. I believe we can agree here at least in principal. I'm afraid we can't. There are good teachers and bad teachers to be sure. No doubt and no argument there. Zip. But surely you can't throw a blanket statement out like that and hope that everyone will agree with you? There are two guys who are working in my immediate territory right now that were trained at a Ronning class that are... EXCELLENT. In fact, since coming along they have not only increased opportunity for us all, they are driving prices up, up, UP! It's totally fantastic for us all. A benefit. There's another guy who teaches--whom I won't name--who puts out consistently crappy hypnotists. A shame to our profession. Not only do these poor folks suck wind, they low-ball and do shows with dangerous material (people falling to the floor, for example). Quote:
I am not sure anyone with cattle call training sessions creates competent anything. Bearing in mind what I wrote above, I think you will agree fully that your statement is a "vague non-specific generalization". True: some trainers do produce lousy students of stage hypnosis. False: ALL group trainings create incompetents. In fact, you can even mix and match. Some really good trainers do have a few lousy students. And, some lousy trainers produce good students in spite of themselves. I'm a believer--no make that defender--of free speech. If you truly believe that, then that's your opinion. And I'm cool with that. But I do not agree. But other posts *you have made* state things such as successful performers don't have time to teach. That group trainings produce ill equipped students, etc. They indicate to me a very negative outlook. Forgive me, but I don't wish to address the other comments as I don't feel they pertain to your topic question. Maybe a separate thread would be warranted, and if I have time we can discuss belief systems and hypnosis. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Besides the fact of off topic, it is your buddies customer base anyhow so why offend potential money?
I find it interesting where it is America and freedom of speech and all, then suddenly when someone dosn't like what is said "I will get my lawyer!". Now since you insist on doing comercials for your pal let me ask you a simple question. You point to the sucess of 2 of his people he trained in seminars. And I guess they spent the whole 4 g's for the mentoring stuff. Well why is it if he is so brilliant and so sucessfull at training and anyone can make unlimited income, you can only point to 2 people as great stories. Shouldn't there be HUNDREDS? Oh wait that is negative and I am here to help. By the way helping includes telling someone when they are being scammed. While I know nobody, especially your friend, would do something unscrupulout such as using embedded commands on his web page, anchor clients to him or use NLP techniques, others do. Yes others do! Was that sarcastic it is tough to tell online.? So to warn people of this possibility seems only right. As so many do it and so many are looking for a get rich quick scheme, lots of warnings seem in order. Sorry if it was negative. Posted: Mar 15, 2006 4:42pm Abundence does NOT create high prices. Too many "good" hypnotists will eventually drive the prices down. This is a fact and should not be in dispute. Fortunatly the vast majority of training cattle calls don't produce "good" hypnotists. (see no names here either) a glut of bad hypnotists charging high, will definatly help "good" hypnotists. This is something we should probably thank the cattle call teachers for. But the more supply, the less the demand. Sorry it is simple fact of economics. The lower the price with high supply. The more demand vs. supply, the higher the price. Certianly you see this right?? Your theory of abundence thinking presupposes that a "quality" hypnotist is turned out. This is not always a good bet. Hardly ever actually.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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leapinglizards Inner circle 1263 Posts |
Do you think MOSt of the folks that claim/ are interested in stage hypnosis, juggling, magic, escapes etc actually go on to do these things? or do you think they stand a chance of becoming our potnetial audience?
Leaping Lizards!!! Who knew it was possible.
<BR> <BR>www.LeapingLizardsMagic.com |
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Daniel Santos Special user 562 Posts |
I'm definitely doing everything I study, or I wouldn't be studying it . I would hate for a 10 (11?) year interest in magic to go down the drain followed by my progress in escapology, juggling, unicycling, et al.
You can count me in as a performer. Not something I plan on stopping...go to college to major in Theater and from there it's time to PARTAAAAY!!!...or maybe not... With the mindset of most young adults today, I think that many do risk going back down to the "layman" level. Life's not how it was 50 years ago in my opinion (not like I would know from experience...LOL). |
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leapinglizards Inner circle 1263 Posts |
I would also say, Daniel, that you are an exception. It obvious from your posts you think, and you have much to contribute. This is a good thing!
Most of the folks I come accross are in this as a hobby, with another career as what they do to make a living. I think there is a place for all... I Also think that there are levels of information that should remain restricted until one has proven one's self in any field.
Leaping Lizards!!! Who knew it was possible.
<BR> <BR>www.LeapingLizardsMagic.com |
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Daniel Santos Special user 562 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-03-15 19:01, leapinglizards wrote: Agreed. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yea, what cryptologists call a "self authorizing language". It means that once you can decipher what is being said, you are entitled to know what is being said.
I believe this is true of most performing arts.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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arkon476 New user 30 Posts |
I think HypnotizeAmerica and leapinglizards have it right. Most that buy materials and go to courses end up doing nothing with it. Danny's comparison to a magician's junk drawer may be pretty close.
Just as magicians buy tricks to learn the secrets, knowing full well they may never perform it, other people buy information to "be in the know" or to impress others around them with their knowledge. For many, that's worth spending money on. Other reasons abound, of course. From the intimidation of peforming for an audience to inertia and procrastination in getting an act together and, yes, training that falls short in giving newbies what they need to get over the problems just mentioned. That many try but few succeed can be inferred by the looking at these past few years of mass trainings. Every state would have dozens of hypnotists by now and we really don't see that. Aaron (a different one) PS. "Self-authorizing language" is an interesting concept that deserves a little looking into. Thanks, Danny. |
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MagicalPirate Special user Shamokin, PA 828 Posts |
I would say that the market will let us all know. When I do my marketing it seems to return results everytime I do it. Therefore, there must not be too many as yet. I don't worry about it as there are tons of Real Estate and other packages on ebay that sell all the time for a lot less than the cost and many are unopened packages. It is the same with Money Back Guarantees. You can offer then without worrying about the consequences as only about 5% will take the effort to ever return it for their money back. Even fewer will ever bother to read and even fewer will ever do anything about it after reading it.
Lets face it, the show is you and 20 total strangers. Most won't ever have what it takes to take that stage in the first place. Second, those that do many will fall flat on their faces and never try again. Odds have it there will never be too many. Martin
Martin Blakley, CSH, DASH, CMSA
http://www.thehypnoguy.com/HYPNORESOURCES http://www.docgrayson.com/ How To Sell Anything Online http://tub.bz/?r=1z Copyright to my own words retained 100%. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Martin you say your a sucess story and when someone asks you for a "shock induction" on another thread you give a long drawn out induction, and then do a re induction.
You don't know the difference in a shock induction and a re induction and you are a sucess story? I don't think so personally. Oh and I DO have a less than 7 minute induction. It is about 80% only though so go figure. So let the Ronning stuff go. I don't care who uses it or why. If it works great. If it dosn't then too bad for you. But lets stop talking about him. Look up slander. I believe truth is a defense in any slander or liable suit. I slandered nobody. So let it go. I have.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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mrmotivation New user 5 Posts |
Danny,
As far as your original question goes. Is there enough hypnotists? No. I came from the DJ industry where there are 65,000 disc jockeys across the United States and for some reason I still didn't have a problem charging 3 - 4 times as much as my competition. The sad part is that I had MORE business when I jacked my rates up than I did at the cheaper fee. What more hypnotists is going to do to this industry is just make many raise their fees and book more shows or drown out the bad ones. If you don't have a good business/marketing/sales head on your shoulder then you probably won't last the tide. Aaron |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Thank you for your opinion. Seriously.
Your probably partialy correct actually. The last sentence is absolutly dead on.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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