We Remember The Magic Cafť We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The Gambling Spot Ľ Ľ Daub (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15726 Posts

Profile of tommy
Daub:

Whats is best daub you have used?

Any one use White Flash daub?

Any one use Oxidizing Daub?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2457 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
There are several issues which you want to take into account when using daub..

* White flash daub can be used on both red and white cards, but, it is NOT the same as making "flash" marked cards. It is good, but, if you want to use it deceptively it will take quite a bit of practice since "Flash" marked cards are harder to read than Juice. White flash daub can even be harder to read than real flash cards because the lines are not as crisp.

* Depending upon the Oxidizing daub ... I have seen it shine so anyone can read the marks if the light hits the cards at an angle. (So, I am not a big fan of this.

I believe that you have better options.... try using daubs which match the back design color or the cards you are using (red for red, blue for blue, burgandy for burgandy, green for green, etc.). Like any "generic" product which tries to work for both red and blue cards, you will sacrafice deceptiveness over a product which was designed with a specific purpose in mind.

In addition, you should be aware that most daubs are a paste like substance which tend to have a sleight dulling effect on the finish of the card. By using a Juice Dust which is not a paste, you will find that the finish of the cards are never compramised.
Long Island,

New York
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15726 Posts

Profile of tommy
Thanks. How long did it take for the Oxidizing Daub you used to develope into the visible marking?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Paul H
View Profile
Inner circle
UK South Coast
1126 Posts

Profile of Paul H
Hi Tommy,

Have you considered the use of juice dust? It looks like a lethal way of marking a deck of cards in a game. Not only is it difficult to detect, but it tends to ware off after an evening of heavy play. Used for information, seconds or both, its a frightening new weapon at the cheaters disposal.

Regards,

Paul H
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15726 Posts

Profile of tommy
Hi Paul

Long time no see!

I am considering anything and everything at the moment as I did my brains this week. I do not think I have even tried juice dust unless I tried it by another name. Thanks for the tips.

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2457 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
Tommy,

Unless you are talking about a different type of "Oxidizing Daub" I don't think the marks materialize. The marks are visable as soon as they are applied...I think you are asking how long it takes to learn to read the marks ????

If that is your question....I honestly don't know because I did not care for the technology....But, that is simply a personal preference.

Paul,

FYI, Juice Dust is very long lasting and can last a very long time (it was tested for up to 300 shuffles and abuse without degraded performance).....the jury is still out before it is declaired "perminant" because there has not been enough testing.
Long Island,

New York
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15726 Posts

Profile of tommy
"First of all there are hundreds of way to mark cards overworking modern devices (A particular kind of phosphorus you can notice only through a laser light, daubs getting oxidized and that you can notice only after a specific gap of time...), system which are hard to identify."

-Claudio Facilla-

http://www.claudiofacilla.com/

Also Doyle:

Brunson's big warning # 3.
Even more sophisticated - and scarier - than old-fashioned daubs is white flash that arrived at poker tables two decades ago. Also a chemical, it is invisible to the untrained eye, but unscrupulous players who practice looking at it, sometimes for months, can read it easily and cheat.


Brunson's Big warning # 4

Daub or flash is often applied poorly by less-sophisticated poker cheats. Even though you won't be able to read the backs of cards, you may see an inordinate amount of smudges. Often these are innocent byproducts of greasy hands, but sometimes they are much less innocent. When you see too many smudges on cards, an alarm should sound in your head.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2457 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
Quote:
On 2006-03-27 21:17, tommy wrote:
"First of all there are hundreds of way to mark cards overworking modern devices (A particular kind of phosphorus you can notice only through a laser light, daubs getting oxidized and that you can notice only after a specific gap of time...), system which are hard to identify."

-Claudio Facilla-

http://www.claudiofacilla.com/

Also Doyle:

Brunson's big warning # 3.
Even more sophisticated - and scarier - than old-fashioned daubs is white flash that arrived at poker tables two decades ago. Also a chemical, it is invisible to the untrained eye, but unscrupulous players who practice looking at it, sometimes for months, can read it easily and cheat.


Brunson's Big warning # 4

Daub or flash is often applied poorly by less-sophisticated poker cheats. Even though you won't be able to read the backs of cards, you may see an inordinate amount of smudges. Often these are innocent byproducts of greasy hands, but sometimes they are much less innocent. When you see too many smudges on cards, an alarm should sound in your head.


Here are some of my thoughts for what they are worth....

The only reason why I think a time delay daub may be of use if if one person marks a deck in a casino and then after he leaves, the marks appear which makes catching the person who marked the cards more difficult to catch. Other than that, I can't think of a reason for a time delay.

I never said that white flash was bad...only that it was hard to read...more difficult than juice. In addition white flash daub only tries to simulate real "Flash" cards and I have not seen white flash daub which is "as" deceptive as Flash cards marked "in private".

Smudges are only seen if an amature applies the daubs.....you need to apply the daub or Juice Dust as if you were marking a juice or "tintwork" deck. I agree that heavy daub marks will be obvious. Like everything in life, you should practice to perfect it and to be the most deceptive you can be Smile

Doyle's warnings actually help the card cheat because it may make a lay person feel confident that they know what they are looking for...how wrong they are and the harder they will fall when they are hit by someone who knows what they are doing.

Very sad....
Long Island,

New York
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15726 Posts

Profile of tommy
Yes I agree. In fact I think Claudio has it backwards because the only casino scam that I know of was where the marks vanished after an an hour or so and left no trace.
So letís assume that the oxidizing daub vanishes after a time a gap, have any of you guys used that?

The casino scam worked something like this:

The Daub is used to mark the cards usually at black jack or other casino games, such as baccarat. The mark evaporates after a short time and does not leave a trace. Lets say it takes half an hour but the time can be controlled by adjusting the ink ingredient. If you had the dealer on your crew it did not matter if the markings were not very deceptive as the dealer would turn a blind eye. By the time the dealer finishes his dealing they had hit them and the marks were gone. The casino checking the cards for marks afterwards could not find them because by that time there were none.
Which tells you that a simple idea can be worked given the right circumstances.
A more sophisticated thing was used later, which was the same basic idea but the stuff could only seen through contact lenses. So the stuff was very hard to detect even before it evaporated, so no dealer on the crew was needed. Basically they got a couple of girls to act as dumb blonds and to play and mark the cards, then the girls would get up and leave the table and a guy pretending to be high roller sat down. At the same time another guy, not playing but wearing the contacts, would stand by the table and read them and give the high roller at the table signals. The roller is physically clean, and so are the cards if the casino is not quick, as the stuff leaves no residue.
I donít think it can still be used in a casino as maybe the cameras are good enough now to pick up the daub marks.

I do like the idea of daub over marked cards as you donít have the problem of getting the cards into the game as you do with a marked deck, I was thinking more for private poker than for casinos though.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2457 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
Unless there is something new on the market...casinos can pick up luminous and IR based solutions with their cameras to my knowledge.

They can also pick up juice depending upon how strong the juice marks are.
Long Island,

New York
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15726 Posts

Profile of tommy
There is nothing new about the stuff they used, now that is, as they pulled it off successfully some years ago. What more likely is new, and better, is the casino equipment to detect it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Paul H
View Profile
Inner circle
UK South Coast
1126 Posts

Profile of Paul H
Hi Tommy,

I have been preoccpied by family illness which is why I have been away. Things are only now getting back to normal, well sort of.

Hi Expertmagician,

Many thanks for the info on juice dust. From my 'magi' point of view, the persistence of the marks is great news. I will be ordering some up shortly along with the juice liquid. From a cheats point of view, I guess the longevity of the mark could be regarded as a minus point. There is nothing more deceptive than a mark that wears off during a nights play leaving no evidence. I too wonder if a chemical marking system exists which fulfills this function. Personally though, I think learning to work with juice will be more than enough for me. Many thanks for an ongoing fascinating discussion guys.

Best Regards,

Paul H
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2457 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
Paul,

I am not sure I agree.

1) I have seen 2 "paste like" daub products. One is sold in gambling supply stores which is longer lasting (But, not as long lasting as the Juice Dust.) In this case, many gamblers may have to "hit" the cards more than once during the night to make sure they can read the marks. The more often you have to mark the cards in front of a spectator, the greater the odds are they you will be caught being "dirty" (no pun intended).

Even from a magic point of view, I prefer not to have to "hit" the cards again unless I have to.

2) There is also a $40 - $50 real daub which is now being sold in magic stores which is great for magic. This particular "paste like" daub rubs off almost immediately. This is good for a magic trick because you have a card selected....mark it... and you can find it quickly and wipe off the evidence. However, there are other tricks where you may want to daub marks to last longer, in this case you should use more professional daub paste or Juice Dust products.

PS: The sleight dulling effect a daub paste may leave on the cards is only noticable when light hits the cards at an angle. If this is an issue then stick to the Juice Dust.

This is my humble opinion for what it is worth....I am not sure if others vary?
Long Island,

New York
Paul H
View Profile
Inner circle
UK South Coast
1126 Posts

Profile of Paul H
Hi Expertmagician,

Thanks of the great info. With regard to the longevity of the dust or daub, you make a good point. I hadn't thought of it in quite that way. In fact there must be a whole art to marking the cards during a game with regard to where the dust or daub is concealed, how it is surrupticiously transfered to the finger or thumb and then how the card is actually marked with a movement that seems natural rather than suspicious. Quite a choreography to consider.

Regards,

Paul H
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2457 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
Each person hides and obtains some of the daub or Juice Dust on their finger differently. The most important thing is to make sure your hand motions are consistant, look natural, etc.

Some people even hide the substances on different parts of their body so they are not performing a repeated action.

I usually apply the Juice Dust to my ring finger or pinky. This is because these fingers are usually naturally curled, so nothing can be seen.

Applying the Juice Dust or daub is easy because it is done with not much more than a touch of the card with a little pressure to make sure the transfer takes place from your finger to the card.

Here is a video of a simple application of Juice Dust:

http://www.marked-cards.com/NU-CONcept-Juice-Dust.wmv

The video is about 18MB...so use a cable modem or DSL.
Long Island,

New York
sodman12
View Profile
Special user
raleigh
601 Posts

Profile of sodman12
I saw once a guy washed his hair with it and would scratch his head when he wanted to mark the cards
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
Expertmagician
View Profile
Inner circle
2457 Posts

Profile of Expertmagician
I saw that on TV....

I am not sure I would want the dust in my hair ?

They may have used something else or they may have lied...the same show also showed luminous glasses as being "yellow" ... not true Smile

So, you can't believe all you see on these TV shows....they don't want to educate the public too much.
Long Island,

New York
sodman12
View Profile
Special user
raleigh
601 Posts

Profile of sodman12
True
tommy that scam was caught when the casino knowing something was up grabed the deck quickly and then saw the marks
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devilís Island
15726 Posts

Profile of tommy
Hi Paul

Great to hear the good news.

Expert

Thanks the tips again and I sent for some to experiment with.

Sodman

The first in with something knew often have a good chance to get away with it, and them that were did. Later when the casinos become aware, well, that is when to forget about it. In the casinos at least!

Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
slakk
View Profile
New user
100 Posts

Profile of slakk
Where do you get juice dust?
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The Gambling Spot Ľ Ľ Daub (0 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.15 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL