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Roslyn
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Hi all,

Is there any video footage of the individual sj escape records that have been mentioned here?

I really think they would be a great teaching aid to one and all (well ok me) as well as being interesting to watch.

Cheers,

Ros
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Mind Witch
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18 second SJ escape. I do the Sj escape and my record is 28 seconds, but I don't use a gimmick but the side straps are removed. My record time is for me and fellow magicians. When I do this escape for spectators I try and make it about 3-4 mins. Is this bad?
Richard Sherry
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Mind Witch

Welcome.
As long as the audience is not falling asleep and you are keeping them very entertained, I don't think it matters how long you take.
DavidEscapes
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Yeah. Records are not for shows, they are just too quick.

Sace them for press stunts, TV specials, escape conventions etc. 3 - 4 minutes is fine as long as the crowd are entertained.
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.

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Mind Witch
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Usually the crowd consists of adults so I try and poke fun at the crouch strap with statements of anger management and the boys are in seperate zipcodes. I am always open for more suggestions and I tried to email some EAs but only one had ever responded. I know with magic it tends to be a tight knit/lip group, I am guessing that it is the same with EAs also.
Mind Witch
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Also, are there any recommended conventions that might be helpful in attending? I know about Cannons, but are there others that are note worthy?
James Peters
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Hi,

With regard to records, I do think that they should be managed carefully within the community.

For exmaple, if someone goes for mine (193 Posey escapes in 8 eight hours), what I would like to see is them just beat it, maybe 195-197 mark. Then I could try to take it back, and maybe fail (which would actually get me more publicity than succeeding). Then maybe I could 'just beat it' ... leaving the way open for a nice bit of competition as it goes back and forth. Remember, it's show-business!!

One of the guidelines set by Guinness is that a record must have the potential to be beaten by someone else. If we all subscribe to that, and everyone plays fair, then we gain a lot of credibility.

As for what a Guinness World Record actually means ... well, suffice to say that rules are not enforced strictly in escapology. The reason for this is that they don't have the knowledge to understand, and are as short-staffed as most other companies, so don't have the time to research it. Remember, they're just human, same as all of us! Smile

James.
DavidEscapes
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Hi everyone

I just wanted to confirm that there is finally an end to this little drama. The below are the facts as I know them, and which can be checked independently.

Matt The Knife never went to Guinness with this record, and he failed to provide ANY source material, evidence or further details to the other record organisations. An independent witness since confirmed that Matt had attempted the record on that day, but had, due to a hand injury, failed to make the escape. He was bleeding heavily all over the jacket and stage from a cut hand, and was not permitted a second attempt. His claim WAS, as I fully suspected, bogus, complete lies.

He has since had the record stripped from him for failing to provide any evidence whatsoever. The fact is, it never happened. It was an attack on me for reasons I can not explain. Matt has also taken it upon himself to make derogatory comments about me at other internet sites. I will not respond with similar childish insults. I don't know why he does it, and I do not care. It, and he, are beneath contempt in my eyes.

Earlier this year I broke the Guinness world record for the SJ again myself, and am now the current holder with all the major record organisations. It is not the 18 seconds Matt claimed, but I have taken a good cut off Ben Bradshaw's record, and I am proud of that. I hope a decent, honest performer like Ben comes back and takes it away from me again.

Many thanks

David Straitjacket
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Harley Newman
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I'm sure that many of us can claim records of some sort, and so what? The correlation of speed to performance ability is zero.

Since records seem to be so important to some of us, criteria need to be established. Any good research, has a goal of eliminating as many variables as possible, so that the ones remaining can be checked for validity of a hypothesis. Also, the researcher must have solid knowledge of the topic under examination. A banker is not likely to understand DNA analysis, for example.

The rules David proposed for straitjacket, are an excellent start.

I think it would be good if the device to be escaped from, was not supplied by the performer or anyone (s)he knows. To purchase a piece of equipment, has no relation to what may be covertly done to it, before its use in performance. We all know that. Most of us have altered one kind of device or another. (I once met someone, who'd enlarged the neck hole, which was a very useful idea, and was totally unobvious! I tried the jacket. How nice it was, yup!)

For straitjackets, may I also suggest that the inside of the sleeves be checked, to insure that the straps are sewn in place? In fact, the arbitrator should check all seams, inside and out.

Use of only one design of jacket, would substantially reduce non-plausible claims. Even a simple difference in Poseys, could make a significant difference in time. To look at the Posey catalog, is such a delight...all those possibilities!

Roller buckles vs. friction ones, which would be ok? Rollers certainly work a lot faster. Do the rules allow for a device that facilitates speed?

None of the Poseys I've had (I've never used another type, and buy them directly from the company) have roller buckles, except for one antique transport jacket. I was under the impression that they're not made that way any longer. I may misremember, or be wrong. I haven't looked at the catalog in several years.

Lack of a crotch strap makes things a lot faster. One would expect that all loops and straps should be in place for a record, and in use...sides, front, and crotch.

With something like cuffs, it's a bit different. If the performer supplies them, then a locksmith knowledgible in escape lore, should also check them. I've looked at Ian's ADAs, those beautiful things, and if I hadn't been looking for what I found, I'd have had no clue. It'd be better if they were straight from the supplier, the package opened at the site of the escape, by the arbitrator.

Let's see if we can keep this type of discussion to criteria, and whether they're met.

How can this be done? What criteria are there, for choosing the arbitrator? What qualifies them, to be a good judge?

What criteria are there for submission of a record? Certainly, in this day and age, video footage of everything, is essential, and ensures that all criteria are met. Without good video, no claim should be submissible. What else?

Guinness records. Many of them are BS. We all know that. I saw someone get one for glass-walking, and I could have found at least a dozen people in under an hour, who regularly did better. They just weren't willing to do a TV appearance for free.

I was talking with someone who'd had a string of Guinness records. He said they wanted him to pay them royalties, for using their name in his advertising. He dumped the records. He didn't feel they were worth the price.

I have a rejection letter from the G folks, saying that one of my stunts is "too dangerous to publish". I like that better than being in the book.

But if you're into that kind of thing, at least make sure the criteria are met, and that your claims can be substantiated.
“You can’t depend on your eyes when your imagination is out of focus” -Mark Twain

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DavidEscapes
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Hi

For the most part, the rules I wrote cover pretty much any faked or altered SJ, and only allow friction buckles, all the loops in place etc. These rules are the ones now used by Guinness, only slightly altered from my original draft to remove the Posey trademark (understandable), and to (bizarrely) remove the insistence on friction buckles being used.

For most handcuff records the cuffs must be supplied by a police officer only, with the serial number recorded, and checked, before an after any attempt.

For all records, video footage, independent witnesses, qualified timekeepers etc must be part of the attempt.

Again, I agree 100% about the performance side of things. I never have, and never will substitute speed for show. Records have opened a lot of doors for me, and that is why I continue to pursue them. But once the door is opened I leave the records outside!

I have a similar letter Harley, only mine says the record is being rejected because I am the only person in the world that can do it! I thought that was the point Smile

David
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Wolflock
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ROTFLMAO!!! Rejected because only you can do it? I think they need to re evaluate what a record is about. Write to ripleys instead.
Wolflock
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aggieman
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Ya, I like rips a lot better, they work with you easier.
Roslyn
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Hi David,

What's the record that only you can do?

I'm intrigued!

I'm also a little baffled that Guinness would allow the use of buckles other than friction buckles.

I thought that these were the only types of buckles supplied on the jacket.

Is there a record for double sj escapes?

For that matter is there anyone that does a double sj from an ungimmicked posey and ungimmicked transport jacket?

Ros

ps

My posey transport jacket came with roller buckles and not friction buckles. Its not that old, got it about 2 years ago. Does anyone have a transport jacket with friction buckles, or is this standard?
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Steve Baker - Mr.Escape
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Ros,

I did the first double SJ escape on "DC Live" in 1978!

Set the record then,from two Posey jackets(ungimmicked)
A strait jacket and a transport jacket,upside-down,with
the rope holding me up on fire!

I belive you have the tape,check out the time!!

Steve
Roslyn
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Hi Steve,

Not heard from you in a while. Hope all is well.

I'll have to have a dig around my escape videos and try to find it.

Did the Posey you used back in the 70s have the front and side loops, crotch strap and friction buckles?

In fact that leads me to the question of when did Posey start adding the loops and change to the friction buckles?

Oh, one other question. Steve, is this escape on the dvd you have for sale on your site?

Cheers,

Ros
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DavidEscapes
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Hi Ros

The record is for the Posey straitjacket on stilts escape that I did. Everyone except Guinness accepted it!

Personally, I don't think for a second that I am the only one who could do it, I said this to Guinness that, and they didn't believe me! The rejection letter for it is nice though Smile

Yeah, I dunno what happened to the friction buckle rule. I wrote it, and it vanished. It may just be an editing oversight on their part. If you were attempting this record I would recommend using a friction buckle Posey, just in case they decide to enforce the rule anyway. Guinness tend to check that a record attempt is comparable to the one before it, and work from there. So if the one before has friction buckles (it's mine, and it does!), they might well not accept roller buckles. Even if it is not mentioned in their rules.

I am probably going to go for a few more escape records before the year is out. Not my choice, I have a few international shows which have asked for this. After that, I will probably rest on my laurels as far as escape records go. I have done enough of them, and I have plenty of other things to do yet. I will be posting details of an escape I did last weekend in a short while, I think you will like it Ros Smile

Cheers

David
David Victor - The artist formally (and still occasionally) known as David Straitjacket.

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Roslyn
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Thanks for the info David.

I look forward to reading your escape.

Ros
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Riley
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Having heard about it over the phone, I KNOW you will like it.

Nice work David.

Best regards

Riley
Steve Baker - Mr.Escape
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Ros,

The 2 Posey jackets I used were supplied by a
hospital and brought to the DC show by two
hospital attendents,and kept in their custody
untill showtime!

The straitjacket was a standard jacket,no side or front straps(1978)

The transport jacket was standard also,but had side straps to control
the subject in the jacket!
Both had crotch straps,the SJ had roller buckles,the TPJ had velcro
back straps and a roller buckle crotch strap!

Yes it is on the Dick Clark video and DVD,that's on my web site.

Steve
aggieman
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Quote:
On 2006-09-05 13:33, David Straitjacket wrote:
Hi Ros

The record is for the Posey straitjacket on stilts escape that I did. Everyone except Guinness accepted it!

Personally, I don't think for a second that I am the only one who could do it, I said this to Guinness that, and they didn't believe me! The rejection letter for it is nice though Smile

Yeah, I dunno what happened to the friction buckle rule. I wrote it, and it vanished. It may just be an editing oversight on their part. If you were attempting this record I would recommend using a friction buckle Posey, just in case they decide to enforce the rule anyway. Guinness tend to check that a record attempt is comparable to the one before it, and work from there. So if the one before has friction buckles (it's mine, and it does!), they might well not accept roller buckles. Even if it is not mentioned in their rules.

I am probably going to go for a few more escape records before the year is out. Not my choice, I have a few international shows which have asked for this. After that, I will probably rest on my laurels as far as escape records go. I have done enough of them, and I have plenty of other things to do yet. I will be posting details of an escape I did last weekend in a short while, I think you will like it Ros Smile

Cheers

David


why not prove to them that it can be replicated, maybe someone here can attempt it, maybe not break it, but still accomplish it. I would do it, if I had that type of strait jacket.
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