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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10960 Posts |
Bish is the best he can be....
but no one seems to get it ...Laurie if I put 10,000 in a sealed envelope in you palm and said I am giving this money to you no strings attached... would you care if I misspelled your name, I doubt it .... Bish stop wasting your time ...the godfather respects you and what you bring to the table.... |
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Jerrine Special user Busking is work. 629 Posts |
This whole give everybody the business manure is getting very very old. There is a line in an old song, "Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative...". I wish everyone here at the Café would heed that advice, constructive critisism aside.
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Chris Becker Veteran user New York, NY 371 Posts |
Indeed, I just made a joke.
Like you life a little better, love yourself a little less. Peace, -Christof
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<BR>Cards don't cheat people. People cheat people. |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
In the book The Magic Of Faucett Ross, Faucett writes about Nate Leipzig and the fact that he could do magic just about anywhere. But from my reading the book he also did magic as an ACT.
He had a stage ACT. He had a close up ACT. He had a club ACT. The magic effects were different in every act. But each act had a beginning a middle and an end with a strong climax. One of the great books in magic is the Dai Vernon Tribute to Nate Leipzig. In that book is Nate Leipzig's act that he did on the stage. Reading and study of this act gives the student structure ideas on how to make an act flow. I have often thought that making an act is like stringing a handful of beads. Each magic effect a bead and it is up to the performer to make the string and string the whole act together. In stage magic many magicians use music to help string the act together. Others that are conversational performers use a personality and often humor to string the act together into a complete performance. One of my favorite books in magic is Tony Taylor "Spotlight on 101 Great Magic Acts. This book tells about the effects that magicians used to do in Vaudeville. Not only does it list the tricks but also the order of the act or show. This gives the student a great reference as how to knock out a show using the structure that many of the great masters of magic used a few generations ago. I also like it because it lists my Dad and one of his early acts on page 10. Also just as a note I up-loaded more vintage video of me doing the cups and balls and the Dai Vernon Linking Ring routine at my web site. I think the video is from the 80's. Quite a long time ago. Enjoy!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
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On 2006-04-06 10:22, bishthemagish wrote: By "here" I meant the video, a professional presentation. I wouldn't care if you mispelled my name, Vinny, because I wouldn't take the money. Thanks. |
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
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On 2006-04-06 17:12, bishthemagish wrote: Thanks! I especially enjoyed you having fun with the "Staring" thing in the opening credits. As a famous comedian once said: "If you can't laugh at yourself, you haven't seen what you look like naked."
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-06 18:02, magicalaurie wrote: All the video at http://www.bishmagic.org is video of past masters. And video in my own scrapbook theater of some of the shows I have done over - around 40 years of performing and growing up in magic. This web site is a hobby and is only because I like reaching out to the magic sub culture. With this web site I have a blog and I have sold several DVD projects (all not professionally produced). The video of me doing my 11 minute act is not a professional video and it is not my best magic act. I said this above for the few that read it. The reason I posted it is because there are some magicians more interested in becoming better magicians than nit-picking over immature details like spelling. As I said it shows an interesting angle and I wanted to open a conversation about the texture and structure of a magic act. One of the ways that magicians can become better is that they can do magic effects in an act format rather than just single tricks performed for friends. Most of what I write is from practical experience of what I have learned over the years. The video of my 11 minute act was a professional show taped by a person at the show. I put it at my "magicians" web site so I could talk about texture and show structure. It in no way would ever be used to sell my act. It has nothing to do with booking my show or the professional image that I put toward the public. The other two web sites I use to sell my act are http://www.mrhypnotist.org and http://www.bishthemagish.org Both sites do very well selling shows for me. I find this very strange - when I was young I used to listen to the past masters that had 40 plus years of experience. Once and a while I would not agree with them but I would still listen. The reason was that if someone that had 40 plus years making a living doing shows. And I wanted to do that. I figured that if they did it 40 plus years - what they would say would be useful. I thought it was great that they would take time with me. It seems that here in the Café - they are not interested in listening to older magicians with 40 plus years of information and they would rather talk about trivial points like spelling. I also find the childish ego is a waist of bandwidth and gets in the way of the information. Oh, yes that Glenn Bishop - he thinks that he is so great and he can't even spell. I may not be good at spelling or math but I have an act that makes money. And it has made money for 30 years or more. And it continues to do so.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
Okay, let's start again. Before we got hung up over a simple speling error I asked:
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Glenn has offered up a video example of how he structures his show. Again I ask, what about the rest of you? (Oh, and for you spell checkers among us, the above error was intentional )
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-06 19:41, bishthemagish wrote: You don't know me, Glenn. |
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EvanSparts Veteran user Michigan 333 Posts |
Laurie, I agree that we as professionals should consider every last detail. including spelling. (now I know sometimes things can slip by) but In my opinion I would never post something that represented me if I haven't considered all things.
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Chris Becker Veteran user New York, NY 371 Posts |
Please, drop it! I've deliberately avoided substantive comments on the video in both of my previous posts. Glenn said himself: "it is not my best magic act", and I will leave it at that.
Glenn, we are all really glad your 40+ years of experience have enabled you to earn so much money, but I find it quite harsh, to say the least, that you are referring to the rest of us as the "magic sub culture". Bullying the young is a privilege you might claim, but please keep any possible frustration about us not taking that all too seriously to yourself. And rest assured, I do listen to you ... if only as a negative example of how not to treat other people. As for magic, I prefer other resources. -Christof
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<BR>Cards don't cheat people. People cheat people. |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-06 22:49, Christof wrote: You said "Bullying the young" that is very interesting. I know what I just wrote is a bit of a stretch but I am wondering why there was such talk about spelling from people like you and no information about the texture of an act, or the structure of an act. Quote:
On 2006-04-06 22:49, Christof wrote: That is YOUR choice as what we all in the Café CHOOSE to post or choose not to. If you or anyone doesn't like what I write or find the information not useful then don't read it. Don't post. You do not have to agree or not agree but some in the Café find the information useful. If you don't like the way I respond when you choose to post just the way some have a problem with the way I spell when I have dyslexia - I do not consider that my problem. .................. The hardest time I have had when structuring an act is when working for sales meetings and trade show work. The reason I find it hard to structure an act in this market is because most often they will give you a script to work with. And the magic is not being done just to entertain the magic is being done with a sales message to push there products. I have done things like when I did a sales meeting for a candy company - loading large M&M’s into a chop cup or a set of cups and balls. And have used a large square circle to produce a large camera lens for a camera company. Structuring an act as a sales message is much harder than structuring an act for just entertainment. To much accent on magic and entertainment the sales message can be lost. To much sales message and you are going to lose them as an audience. I have used the shell game in an interesting way. That is that at trade shows they always end up with a bag of goodies from other booths. I have had them bet these goodies from other booths against the goodies that that they would win from the client that I was working for. This can lead to a lot of good situation comedy and fun with the shell game. I never made the trade show a big market in my life because I have a hard time entertaining with a sales message and I like entertaining for the sake of entertaining. Part of the structure of the act can rest on the market that the magician does the act for. And the venue. But out of this hard business some real great magic can come out of it because NEED is the mother of invention! Just a few more thoughts about the structure of an act. Posted: Apr 7, 2006 12:38pm Quote: On 2006-04-06 20:52, magicalaurie wrote: You don't know me, Glenn. You are right we have never met. But I do know youth and their energy and what they do in magic. And often why they get interested in magic. Now I have no idea what the goal is when people come into the Café. I have no idea what the goal or dreams are of magicians as well. But from the posts on "bad magicians" and other things I GET the idea is that in an outside way the DRIVE and energy is to try to IMPROVE magic and IMPROVE magicians as a general statement. The Café sign and mission statement is "Magicians Helping Magicians". So with that in mind one of the reasons that I post is to tell magicians how I feel and what I have experienced in magic. My posting has nothing to do with my own personal ego. I do not make a living selling to magicians. I spent 15 years in a magic shop that the last thing I want to do is sell magicians products. It is true that I sometimes sell a few things but that is to offset the cost of doing some projects. I hardly do it as a living and the products are self produced and not distributed to the magic world at large. Even though I have had some very large offers. Now to magic. Magic needs young people but from what I see I see young people buying DVD products and getting very good with moves and they copy the artists on the DVD's. But I see very few young and some older people pushing the envelope to come out with there own great stuff. There are a few and some of them are on Vinny's new DVD. And there are others. There are a lot of more important things in magic that just learning moves. You are right about spelling and the professional look. But if it was an issue I would suggest that you start a thread about it and how it can effect the image of a magician in the real world. That I see would be a positive way to "Magicians helping magicians" do it. That brings me to the point I now want to make in business and this is very important. That is that people of authority (not to say that I am a person of authority) - People that have authority - Presidents, congressmen, teachers, leaders, people in power. Often do not like it when a person points out a mistake. And will often react in a NEGITIVE way. Pointing out mistakes HAS A RISK. Because you never know how they will react to you pointing out that mistake. If the person is your boss or a person in power pointing out a mistake can cost a person there job. Speaking of the magicians of yesterday and in part my DAD. My dad did not have a political opinion that he ever made public. My dad did not point out mistakes in other magicians promo when they showed him the completed product. He would look at it and just nod. The reason is people do not like it and often take the pointing out of mistakes very personal and doing so is a risk - because you never know how they are going to react. That is why learning how to handle hecklers on the stage is very important while doing a magic show. If you are doing a show and the heckler says something - a joke or something for attention to get a laugh. Often he is out there with his friends and it is not a good idea to pound him until you have the audience on your side. Most often it is best to let them interrupt the show until the audience is tired of it. After the audience is tired of it then they want the show to get on - then it is ok to take care of the heckler. The same with the material we choose for our acts. We can CHOOSE our material but we have NO POWER over how the audience or a person is going to REACT TO our material. So if the material is not clean or it offends people or a person there may be problems. Just the same as going to a interview for a show and from out of the blue making a joke about the advertising of the show to the person that is booking you. What IF and this could happen because it DID happen to me when I was young. You made a joke and the person that is interviewing you is in charge of the advertising and they did not think the joke was funny. I can tell you what happened to me I lost a very good contact and future shows from this very good contact. So what I am trying to say here there is a lot to learn about magic that is just as important as learning moves. We post and people react in there own way for there own reasons. The other reason I post in the Café is because I think that it is necessary for the older magicians to pass on magic and the life lessons that they have experienced. Why? Because I see something in the young and old in magic - what I see is myself - and perhaps that is why I post the way that I do. So in a nutshell the reason I have not given up on the youth in magic or the "Magic Sub Culture" is because I have not given up on me! And learning how to structure an act and to handle hecklers and many other things - is very important. Even if a magician is not making a living off magic - and if they do!
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10960 Posts |
Glen is from the old school as I am . This is why I have a lot of respect for him
and what he is trying to give back to the magic community.. Laurie I am glad you would not of taken the money this tells me somthing about you chanracter,,, as in the past I have always joked with you you have a great sense of humor and always with excellent comeback lines , ... my point about the money was Glen was offering some of his past experiences for free and as I said not many of todays magicians would do this... I have used the bishop steal and this made my routine better. we are never to old to learn this is how we grow in magic..... Glen thank you for posting and I hope I did not offend any one vinny |
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Magicsquared Inner circle 1262 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-07 12:38, bishthemagish wrote: I'm sure your father was a lovely man, but not pointing out a mistake in someone's promotional material is really an awful thing to do. And that doesn't matter if it's a spelling mistake, a flaw in routining, or whatever. When you care about someone you strive to make them the best they can be, you don't just nod. As far as the video you posted, I thought the magic was serviceable, but uninspired. The effects seemed to have no relation to one-another or the audience, just one meaningless stunt followed by another. This seems to be the way most magic is presented, and it's probably why people have such a low opinion of magic. I know you don't like criticism, so you can disregard this. --Charles |
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magicfish Inner circle 7016 Posts |
Hey, Bish, he was just joking about the sraring.
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-07 14:13, Magicsquared wrote: Thanks for posting. In answer to my Dads attitude - if the magician came into the shop and asked my Dads advice BEFORE printing then he would have made his changes and helped the guy out. Having the magician come in AFTER the printing and the investment and then having given the advice - the young magician may have taken it as a slam because he already invested his money in the printing. The point - there is a RIGHT time and a right place to inform people to HELP them correct mistakes. After the printing is the WRONG time! The printing was shown to my Dad and the other loafers in the shop for the personal ego of the magician that did it. Not at a time that he was asking for advice. Now had he came into the shop MONTHS ago when he was about to do it his printing would have improved with my Dads advice. There is a right time and a wrong time to talk about the mistakes of others. Just as there is a RIGHT WAY and a WRONG WAY to tell others about there mistakes. Quote:
On 2006-04-07 14:13, Magicsquared wrote: I have no problem with criticism when it is honest and sincere as you said it above. I also agree that magic in general has a problem being the lowest art form in relation to other theater. Please explain more about the (The effects seemed to have no relation to one-another or the audience) and if you have any experience being in the same kind of performing situation please explain how you handle this problem. And if you don't perform try to put yourself into the video and perhaps we can all grow from more suggestions. Plus any structure ideas you might have experienced. Posted: Apr 8, 2006 9:00am As I mentioned in another thread performing magic has it's own problems. That is that when performing magic as a living it must meet the demands of the business. And it must meet the needs of the client. I have often found that when magic the art hits business it is the art that suffers. Magic must meet the needs of the business at a trade show. The sales message is what is important to the client. Magic must meet the needs as an entertainment but. It is the drawing power of magic that must fill the room and pull an audience. This is very hard to do without a pullstar rating or a following of people. In music and a star like Toby Keith he has the name value and the music but he can and does draw his following over and over again to see his show. With magic I have found that a little harder. Because once they have SEEN your show people in general don't have a NEED to see a magic show twice. That is why the older magicians fought to have one great illusion in a magic show. Like the sawing or shooting a woman through armor plate. Or the hanging illusion. These illusions would draw people to the show. Getting back to talking about show structure when you are hired to do a show it depends on the place and the people you are doing it for. Rarely do I get to do a show when magic is expected. Shows happen and often they are forced on the audience and the audience doesn't have any idea that a magician was booked to perform. Often I have heard the line as I am setting up. "Oh they have a magician tonight we should have brought the kids". Because often outside of Las Vegas magic is looked upon as children's entertainment.
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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MMilan7 New user 9 Posts |
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bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Interesting link MMilan7 with only 4 posts.
There are more reading disabilities than dyslexia and according to the study 1 out of five people have some kind of reading disability. It is not a problem with the eyes it is a problem the way the brain is wired to pick up graphic symbols. From my point of view - the printed world is a code book and I have to de-code the printed word BEFORE I can read it. So try to imagine your entire magic library and every book you own is in code. Try writing html. Try going and filling out a job application and it is in code. At the time I was in school during the 60's the teachers and the American school system did not understand things like this like they do today. Had I not gotten into magic and was forced to read magic books because I wanted to learn magic I would have never made it through the public school system here in the USA. I consider having dyslexia an advantage because often I can't read how a magic effect is done because it is not explained well and it is in code and I often come up with my own method of doing things. Because need is the mother of invention. I also feel that I have my success in life as my success in magic in spite of my own personal problems. And I often wonder why people without his problem of reading and all those "A" students out there in magic don't use there gifts and do more. In other words I have my success with dyslexia (just visit my web site http://www.bishmagic.org) - what is your excuse?
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
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magicalaurie Inner circle Ontario, Canada 2962 Posts |
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On 2006-04-08 09:00, bishthemagish wrote: I don't agree, Glenn. If a magician is entertaining and I like him/her, I NEED to see that show again. And again. Again, even. Big name or not. I think much of the general public feels the same. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Good topic Glen, that is, the structure of an act. It is something I would like to learn more about as it is something I have never really understood. Shame it's drifted of that point. Thanks for the help.
Tommy
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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