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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
No you do not have to thank me or every one but common curtosity should be extend to all that took the time to answer your question not just single out a few.
I broughjt up the fact about using regular cards to do many of the wonderful effects without having to purchace gaffs but this went right over your head. and by the way there is nothing wrong in using gaff cards I just took this in another direction,, the godfather |
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cloneman Elite user 474 Posts |
Vin - I disagree that common courtesy requires me to answer all responders if I answer a few. For my reasoning, see my post above.
I think I disagree with you on just what constitutes common courtesy in a few other respects, as you seem to feel my lack of acknowledgement of your post meant that your post “went right over my head.” In my book this is a discourteous assumption on your part, at best. I read your post, I actually liked it, and went on to respond to others. I truly am sorry if your ego is so easily bruised. Get over it. Look, I really don’t have the time, or the interest, in a flame war with you. Thank you for your post.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Clone I hear what you say and I respect that , I have no ill feelings and thank you for your response.
end of story vinny |
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
Um...Uh.....Let's get back to Packet Tricks, shall we?
I wouldn't say stigma. Doing effects with a borrowed deck is just so gratifying. Especially If there's no setup. Using any specialized prop opens up the question "Was it him or the prop?". I'm not a big packet guy, but I do a few. I've only been questioned once. I told the person that I keep them separate so every time I show the trick, I don't have to go digging for the cards. Even though some of my other effects involved me "digging" for cards, this answer seemed to satisfy him.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
JOSH I agree lets take skinner's three card monty a great trick but the cards can not be examined,, and if you are doing this for people who have see you perform the effect thepatter and the effect is always the same
I wouldd rather take three cards out of a pack and do color monty .. I think this is so much more powerful. but then again that just me |
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
Vinny,
Funny you should mention it. I used to do Skinner's monte. I would always pull the three cards from a matching deck. Nowadays I do a traditional monte, but with Bee cards. Since I normally work with Bicycles, I keep my un-gaffed 3 cards in a separate little packet. How ironic. No one's ever questioned me, but they do ask to see the cards. I let them.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
My feeling is that if people are going to suspect "trick cards" they're going to suspect them even if the pack is a deck of Bikes bought at the drug store by the person who hired you for the show.
If you have a reason for having a small packet of cards (as in B'wave or a monte effect) I don't see it as a problem. In the case of three card monte themed effects it's perfectly normal to carry them in your wallet or an envelope since the real guys don't carry a whole pack with them when tossing monte. If you think that packet trick envelopes look "tricky" just put some business cards in the other side. That's what those things were for before magicians started buying them to hold their trick cards. And packet tricks with "special" cards, like "The {W}hole Thing" can be very strong for laymen, who often don't think of them as "card tricks" because they aren't playing cards. |
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prospero Special user Elsewhere 572 Posts |
Gaffed cards imply a lack of skill to most magicians.
And packet tricks? THEY'RE BORRRRING. |
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Vater Araignee Regular user MI 172 Posts |
Just in the last few months I developed a respect for card magic.
One day a lay came into work and said "Let me show you something" and pulled out some cards and I though "Oh god I get to see some juggling" but I let him show me. My jaw drooped it was the first card effect that looked like magic that I have ever seen. Using zero slights he vanished my card, of course he couldn't make it come back because he didn't force a card on me but I was stunned. Since then I found out how, I been practicing my card [s]juggling[/s] manipulation, I have become a card collecting junky and I have extended a few old routines with custom gaffes and made a new packet trick using 5 jokers that I call "Bleached or teleported?" Here is a suggestion. You do a clean deck routine and leave the deck out of the box If you packet trick that looks like it has nothing but normal cards then when your done put them on the deck and stick it back in the box, then as an after thought pull the cards out and ask if any one wants to check out a magic deck. The secret? A gaffed box.
"Good enough never is." - Vater Araignee
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Sora New user Stony Brook, NY 16 Posts |
I'm gonna have to disagree with you prospero.
The first packet trick I ever learned was one of Ton Onosaka's and I still find it an excellent trick.It's not only magical but it's also very entertaining. If you think packet tricks are boring,you must not have the right presentation for it. |
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cloneman Elite user 474 Posts |
I'll have to disagree with Prospero as well. I do NFW and it blows lay people away. I think packet tricks work if you start with color monte (as Godfather says, with regular cards) or a similar non-gaffed trick and let the audiences examine it afterwards. Once their guards are down you can ring in your gaffs.
Even though many packet tricks rely on relatively easy false counts and displays, I don't think this implies a lack of skill. I always start with what looks good to a lay audience, not what shows off my skill to other magicians. Additionally, those tricks which "require less skill" can allow the performer to better concentrate on the performance.
"Anything is possible... if you don't know what you are talking about."
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Charles Adams Regular user Silver Spring, MD 158 Posts |
No one has mentioned packet switch in this thread. Ring your gaffs in and then back out and no one is then wiser as they examine the cards to their hearts content.
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
Well Prospero actually answered the original question. "Gaffed cards imply a lack of skill" and packet tricks are "borrrring" (that boring Dai Vernon should have practiced more). So if the stigma comes from the mentioned thinking, you know how much weight to give it. If you want the approval of people who think a whole genre of magic is boring, avoid packet tricks.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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Rennie Inner circle I think I have about 1826 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-06 12:59, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Jonathan, Two of my very favorite packet effects are completely examinable those two being, Color Monte and Cascade by Roy Walton. I think packet tricks will be around and popular as long as there are magicians... Rennie Posted: Apr 7, 2006 12:47pm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- On 2006-04-07 00:27, prospero wrote: Gaffed cards imply a lack of skill to most magicians. And packet tricks? THEY'RE BORRRRING. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prospero, I sure have to disagree with the statement "Packet Tricks Boring" I think they have been and always will be entertaining as to the different effects and cards that are used. As for a lack of skill , I think there are more sleights utilized in doing small packet effects than with a full ungimmicked deck in many cases. I think David Copperfield got a lot of mileage out of doing McDonald's Aces on one of his specials. I might add Max Maven aka Phil Goldstein has invented numerous ENTERTAINING packet tricks..Paul Hallas wrote a very entertaining book on packets called "Small but Deadly", so have to disagree with you, sorry... Rennie
The effect is the important thing, how you achieve it is not.......
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Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
"Reset" is a packet trick. I doubt many of us carry around those eight cards only in a little plastic wallet, however. Why? because the cards we need are already available in the deck we have been presumably performing with anyway.
The introduction of a little plastic wallet into the performance arena carries the following standard for me: That if I'm going to introduce what I will deem "normal" playing cards, then I will produce them some other way, or as an organic part of the deck in the first place. If the cards I'm going to use are outliers--or obviously special cards (Like John Guastaferro's "Frogs" bit, or Close's Clones), then I will use the wallets. I perform a three card monte routine that uses gaffs, and so instead of the wallet, I use an envelope--the rationale being that this is the way a con-artist may produce them for a quick turnaround. Tommy Wonder uses a packet wallet beautifully--as he rationalizes it to be his "collection" as a precursor to his "Tamed Card" routine (and in my opinion, the greatest presentation of that effect) |
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
I feel as Ron does about this.
Packet tricks where you take the packet from a deck don't bother me. The idea of carrying playing cards in a wallet just seems to shout, "Trick cards here!" Don't get me wrong. Packet tricks are entertaining and fun. Packet tricks that I personally find acceptable are those with non-standard card faces. "Color Monte", "The Web", "Gypsy Curse" and similar. I also don't mind printing effects if they start as blanks. I feel more at ease in presenting these as 'special cards' than I do with playng cards. |
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DomKabala Inner circle I've grown old after diggin' holes for 2827 Posts |
Quote: Packet tricks boring? Nah, bad presentation, yeah now that's boring! Gaff cards imply a lack of skill to most magicians...who says? Dai Vernon, Daryl Martinez, Michael Skinner, Gary Freed, Nick Trost, Larry West, Phil Goldstein, John Bannon and scores of other magicians must all have a lack of skill if that was true...NOT!
On 2006-04-07 00:27, prospero wrote: :bikes: :hypnodisk: KRaZy4kardz
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.
God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20 "Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value." |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
The stigmata of packet tricks is an attaché case full of cheap plastic wallets and beginning each routine with "let me find this one, you'll love it".
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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James England New user 79 Posts |
Fairly certain all this has been discussed before. However, while I don't disagree with the use of packet tricks by any stretch, those of value are by far in the minority to those available! Rainbow Cascade by Roy Walton - especially in his hands - is something truly memorable and that first dazzling revelation is mindblowing when performed correctly. I do err on the side of gaffed tricks but equally remember my astonishment when first seeing Wild Card many years ago. I would love to have witnessed NFW as a layman, that must really hurt. I know many laymen question like mad but those that enjoy the magic do not look or ponder for explanation. These are the guys that are worthy of our practise and time, let us suspend their belief forever........
Never regret something that once made you smile
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
How about dividing your regular deck into 13 separate plastic wallets? Then your packets would seem normal. If you do Lethal Tender make sure you throw in a couple random half-dollar sized coins here and there.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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