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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Agreed!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
Perhaps to say half or less.
I would still think there should be a distinction between gaffed and gaff less if only because I believe that is what might have caused some confusion in the beginning of this thread. I don't think any magician would have a problem using 4 cards out of a deck. Perhaps some may have a problem with using gaffs. I think one could chose to use gaffs and not be chastised, visa-verse. Using gaffs or not is personal preference and should be so viewed. Another's personal preference should be of no concern to you or me.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
I think most of us when we say "packet" think of pulling them out of a little wallet. perhaps the WALLET itself is where the stigma, if there is one, comes in.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Yeah what exactly is the stigma the wallets or the packet tricks
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
I really believe it is the wallet itself. Honest to God.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Roger Kelly Inner circle Kent, England 3332 Posts |
If the stigma is in the wallet itself, then go get a decent wallet and bin the ridiculous pastic ones that come with the trick.
As for packet tricks, wallets whatever, I just don't see a stigma. I've never had anyone suspect anything when I've done "Queens Out Of Control" having removed two sets of 'four' identical cards from a quality leather wallet.(because they obviously wouldn't have come from a full deck!) whilst saying something like, "Most people say I don't play with a full deck..." Then leaving the cards on the table for anyone who would care to examine them! The same goes for Virginia City Shuffle. In fact, anything that ends clean, in my book, qualifies for a little wallet of it's very own if it clearly cannot have come from a normal deck. I carry another wallet (but not used at the same time) with 4xQH and 4xKS in it. These are used for a multitude of sins in a ten minute routine which includes variants of 8 Card Brainwave; Dave Campbell's Dotty Spots; Jazz Aces and Reset. Once again, they are left for examination and I have never been 'called' on why or how etc. However, I do also carry a convenient deck made up of other packet tricks. When ribbon spread, they look like a deck of fifty four cards - all different (except the jokers.) However, a neat deck switch introduces this and all the gaffs for Skinner's Three Card Monte; Nick Trost's Trik Kards; John Allen's Double Back and Daryl's Crossed Thought. My ultra-slim O'Connell mini-himber also houses Skinner's Monte and the gaffs for Dave Campbell's "Beyond Belief" on one side with the 'correct' cards on the other for that just-in-case moment! Finally, a normal deck in use caters for Masque, Jumping Gemini, Twins, Dr Daley and Twisting the Aces et al. The only one I have an 'issue' with is Twisted Sisters. At the moment, yes, that is also in a little leather wallet, but I'd rather take the cards from a red deck and blue deck - but that's just too much extra to carry and perhaps another risky switch. I suppose it's all really a matter of how best to house them and introduce them with a logical reason. It's worked for me and I love 'em! (By the way, they don't ALL get used in the same performance - that would be just stretching the packet trick issue!) |
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lockedroomguy New user New York, NY 65 Posts |
Has there ever been a household-name magician who got by on gaffed tricks alone? Similarly, has there even been a household-name magician who got by on non-gaffed tricks alone? I don't know but I'm guessing someone else here does.
We probably all agree that being able to perform sleight-of-hand makes one a better performer in general, since situations arise where it comes in handy - sometimes you can improve on the magic of the moment or retrieve a situation gone bad if you have the chops. So I'd say the stigma of gaffed tricks is an extension of this line of thought. Less dependence on gaffs implies more skill, more options, better performer, and therefore gaffed tricks are not as good. It's not true - I think we would also all agree that the best performer takes advantage of everything available, sleights AND gaffs and anything else that makes for a better show. No one would understand that better than the magicians actually making a living at this stuff. But... I'm also guessing that when those same magicians are talking about who's good, they don't spend much time saying, "Boy is so-and-so ever good with gaffs!" Regards |
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Cameron Francis V.I.P. 7025 Posts |
What's the problem with a plastic wallet? Seriously. I take extra cards out of plastic wallets all the time and no one has ever said anything or looked at me funny. To the average spectator, it looks like a small plastic wallet you might carry business cards in.
To a magician a plastic wallet screams "packet trick" but to the average person, it looks like... well a small plastic wallet that you are pulling cards out of. I should also say, though, that I believe pulling cards out of a wallet should be done only when properly motivated, such as needing a couple of "special" cards for the next trick; blank cards, extra Jokers, etc. If you're working with a regular deck and then put it away and then pull out four kings from a wallet, well, that doesn't make much sense at all.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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Roger Kelly Inner circle Kent, England 3332 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-06-08 10:47, cfrancis wrote: So, what is it you're saying? Wallet or no wallet - plastic or otherwise? |
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Jaz Inner circle NJ, U.S. 6111 Posts |
Here's my humble and paranoid opinion.
The only packet of cards that belong in a wallet are those that don't look like they should be from a regular deck. If there are multiple cards of different value, IE: Ace of Spades, 2 of clubs and 3 of diamonds I prefer them coming from a deck. Skinner's "Ultimate Monte" uses 3 different value cards and should come from the deck. If there are multiple cards of the same value, IE: 3 Ace of Spades and a Joker, I can understand a wallet. Then there's those 'special cards' that I have no paranoia when pulling them from a wallet. Original "Color Monte" could be in a wallet. "The Web". I have "Monkey in the Middle" cards with gophers (go fors?) on the backs. |
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jezza Elite user 469 Posts |
If it entertains perform it , I perform rainbow cascade and audiences love it
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Rainbow cascade is one of the best packet tricks there is. It knocks people's socks off. It is the only set of cards I carry outside of a regular deck. And I justify it very simply.
I carry the cards for it in a pay envelope. I start out with "I keep these cards separate from the others, by request." Then I go into the routine. After it's over, they can look at the cards all they want. But I don't let them. I put them away and go on about my business.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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MagicbyCarlo Inner circle has squandered his time making 1062 Posts |
I love B'Wave, Skinner's U3CM and I saw a video of Fred Kaps performing the Homing Card. It intrigued me so much so I sought to find a method and presentation that fit me. After some research and a lot of play I came up with a handling that in my opinion elevated the effect and created a visual piece of magic that had a flash magical ending. I have no problem as a professional perfomer using packets. Magic is entertaining an audience by amazing or astounding them, if I can do that with one card, a packet or an entire deck, it doesn't matter to me. People who shun gaffs and gimmicks just never learned to use them as tools. Long live the shell!
Carlo DeBlasio
<BR>Entertainment specialist <BR>and all around fun guy! |
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cardsharpist New user 55 Posts |
A packet trick here or there is cool, I would use more than one or two in single session. Personally I like tricks that come from a regular deck. They're easy come by and always avalible. Last week I saw a guy pull out his plastic packet and unstick the cards from inside. Looked like a little of the paint came off the cards and stuck to the clear plastic. Not to mention that the cards were well worn and it looked like he had practiced with while eating dinner.
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Ryan Matney Regular user 189 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-06-07 22:29, lockedroomguy wrote: Not entirely sure, but I don't think Don Alan ever used a completely normal deck. The core of his repatoire was Devano Deck, Nudist Deck, etc. And, he seemed to almost always have a locator card of some sort in his normal decks. By the way, for all you guys that like gaffed tricks and packet tricks, there's a new dvd set out with Simon Lovell doing 40 tricks and it includes a full deck of gaffs! Simon explains several routines for every gaff included.
www.pocket-tricks.com
The Close-Up Magic Shop |
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bugjack Inner circle New York, New York 1624 Posts |
I was down at my childhood home this week on family business, and I took a look in my magic drawer and started to pull out all the packet tricks I bought as a kid. Now, as an adult, I only remember having a few -- "Color Monte," "Wild Card," Al Cohen's "Dots Incredible" and "Dots Impossible" and a bunch of now forgotten Emerson and West tricks that were pretty good, including one called "Sequence."
Why the stigma on packet tricks, though? Well, I was kinda shocked to find tons and tons of packet tricks I had bought that now seem completely worthless. They all have randomly changing backs and unmotivated changes. Sleights -- Elmsley's, mostly, repeated ad nauseum. We rag on the currently marketed "Mercury" effect with its endless Ascanio's. Well, I found something called "Mondo Monte" that was the same thing. Four cards as three, a pared down Ascanio count, and a bunch of silly changes. "You thought I had an 8? No, I said it was a King!" I was a kid and these were dealer items, and I had a lot of fun shopping for these. And obviously the dealer had a good time selling them to me. But aside from a couple of Harry Lorayne books I wound up having and then "Expert Card Technique" (without having read "Royal Road) in my library, a lot of the time practicing these tricks seems wasted. I can do a good Elmsely -- performed in the way taught back then, fingertips of the left hand pushing off into the right -- but I wish someone had pulled me aside and said, "Look, kid, you need to nail this list of sleights." I was in Tannen's the other day and one of the dealers was pushing "Card College" on some young kid. At first I thought it seemed a bit overkill, but after looking at my trick drawer, I wish someone had done that to me. |
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Card-Shark Inner circle Germany 1758 Posts |
Isn´t it always the same in magic? All that you do should have a motivation. Be natural.
I bought Michael Ammars Showcase Wallet (Z-Wallet) a year ago or so for no reason. Sometimes you buy something to have it when you will need it. ;-) And now this is the home of four packet tricks, a nice leather wallet! I have special printed cards with money symbols on it for the Virginia City Shuffle (I really love it!), my own Monkey Monte set (with the handling of Color Monte), Trick-Cards for Christian Knudsen´s Tablehopper´s Holy P.O.D with a hole in the cards and my packet trick Mona Lisa´s secret, which I will publish in a month or so. All cards have a purpose to be in this wallet. They are specially printed, every layman can see it. So this is the motivation to use this wallet. BUT: I only perform one or two packet tricks, it is a little bit of jazzing, the feeling I have when I do close up. So I decide spontanuosly which trick I will show. I saw a close-up performance where an older magician pulled out several different packet tricks one after the other and performed odd movements. It was really a shame seeing him doing (ruining) magic. Every prop he used screamed: I am gaffed!!! I think the stigma about packet tricks also comes from the "easy to use - ready in five minutes" promise of the dealers. Just get the cards, here is the pattern you have to say, the audience will scream and laugh, this will be THE best trick you ever perform! If you do not reflect the pattern, refine the handling so that it works best for you, find a story that suits you and your figure you are performing, I wont be naturel. And a spectator feels that. Perhaps he will not say it to you because he will be polite, but he will laugh at you behind your back. I learned that some packet tricks are real jewels, the first I performed was from Richard Sanders which is included in his DVD SuperCards. The cards are the same as in NFW, but the sticky side is on the other Joker. I think the routine is even stronger because the magic happens in the hand of a spectator. When the Jokers change into something complete different, the effect is as strong as producing to sponge balls in the hand of a spectator. Christian
Expert in playing card production for magicians.
The Person Who Says It cannot Be Done Should Not Interrupt The Person Doing It! Chinese Proverb |
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Joshua Barrett Inner circle Cincinnati, Ohio 3631 Posts |
Personally I love packet tricks...and gaffed coins for that matter "]"(i saw it mentioned here.) I do strange travelers, twisted sisters. queens out of control. a few from a local magician named bill pryor. and recently I ordered all of gordon beans stuff.
maybe its just me, and how I present things... but iv never had anyone say anything about trick cards... a lot of times if done right they are to blown away to even think about that. |
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Hayre Regular user Arkansas 194 Posts |
With respect to Color Monte, it makes perfect sense to carry them seperately...it fits the story. So do the specially printed cards, plus non-magicians love the $14 card. In my opinion, you lose a LOT if you try to do this with cards out of a regular deck. I've done it both ways hundreds of times...the audience remembers the packet presentation, and do not seem to find it as memorable using cards out of a deck. Don't know why, but I do know that is how it has played out over hundreds of repetitions.
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