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Steve V Inner circle Northern California 1878 Posts |
The reason they say Persian is since 1979 they don't want to call themselves Iranian. This was to avoid an arse kicking. You see there are a great many people too freakin' stupid to know Persia is now Iran. If you want to call Asians Orientals go right ahead and do so. Got it Wolfwolf?
Steve V |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-07 22:45, Steve V wrote: There's no linguistic reason to distinguish between an adjective used to decribe where a PERSON is from, and one used to describe where an OJBECT is from. A person from Germany is GERMAN. A car from Germany is GERMAN. A painting from America is AMERICAN. A person from America is AMERICAN. Food from Europe is EUROPEAN. People from Europe is EUROPEAN. I understand the PC distinction, but it's arbitrary. The Orient is a more specific part of the continent of Asia, and there's no principled reason to distinguish between people and non-people that are from that region. As soon as everyone who isn't from Asia uses the term "Asian," another term will spring up, much in the same way that "black," which was the "progressive" term that replaced "colored," was changed to "African-American" as soon as it gained widespread appeal. Got it Steve?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Obviously, that should have read, "People from Europe ARE European."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Steve V Inner circle Northern California 1878 Posts |
Odd, when I meet people from Europe and I say "so where are you from dip%#@$@?" they usually will say "I'm Danish" or Polish or English etc etc. Not once has one said "I'm European". If you have an issue with what those from Asian countries desire then address them, I don't give a dead rats arse what you call them. Actually, as the folks found in Europe do, the folks from Asia prefer to be refered to by national origin, for example Korean, Chinese, Malay. Good luck finding anyone from the United States, other than myself, that calls themself an American w/out some addition. Oh, I'm about as un PC as they come.
Steve V |
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
I am an American. Actually I'm Irish, English, Scotch, Dutch, French, Canadian American Indian American. I call myself an Irenscodufrecadian American. No one else does, but as I hate everyone who isn't me, I don't care.
I believe Hispanic is a word that was made up so as to not use the term "Mexican". If you are from Cuba, you are a Cuban, you will be referred to as a Mexican, a Hispanic or A Latino, none of which may be relevant, unless your from Hispanica, Latiny, or Mexico. If you are Black you will be referred to as Black or African, even if your family decent is no closer to Africa than the origins of life in the garden of Eden that, as I understand it was in the North American Missouri part of Africa. If you are white you will be referred to as White, Whitey, White devil, Cracker, the list goes on. If you are me you would be referred to as "Sir" or "Your Majesty" or "Stupid". It's like my momma used to say: "No one ever said life was fair". Get used to ignorance, even learn to enjoy it, it's all around you anyway there is no stopping it.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-08 00:33, Steve V wrote: I bet they wouldn't get offended if you refer to them as "European," either.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
I answer that question with "I sure do, but where I come from we call it Texun" Jerk questions deserve jerk answers.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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Patrick Differ Inner circle 1540 Posts |
Flog that horse.
I was born in Colorado, and I grew up in Nevada. I started learning Spanish when I was 30. That was 12 years ago. My ¨teachers¨ were Cubans, ergo I developed a Cuban accent. Now I live in Mexico. When I speak, I get odd looks and smiles most of the time. Mostly because this white boy speaks pretty good Spanish, but he speaks like a Cuban. Our greatest fears are to not understand and to not be understood. As long as we are doing our best and showing respect to those that do their best, the differences in the dialects and diction are often overlooked. If a guy tells me that he´s a Mexican, I say that´s cool. If he tells me that he speaks Mexican, I say right on. But of the thousands of Mexicans I´ve met and known, every one of them have told me that they speak Spanish. Every single one.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy; The way into my parlour is up a winding stair, And I've a many curious things to show when you are there. Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair -can ne'er come down again. |
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts |
I speak, read, and write Spanish but speak English daily and prefer it that way unless I'm dealing with a foreigner who's English 'aint' that good.
I remember translating an interview by Carlos Hampton with Rene Levand for Visions, The Online Journal of the Art of Magic. The Castilian language of Levand gave me a couple of headaches in translation. You can't loosely transcribe the words of a master! Carlos helped in areas that stumped me. Although I fully understood his Spanish presentation, the translation could easily loose the awesome effects of Levand's work. I dare say, so much of the magic occurs in, and is far more impactful, because of his words and how he uses them. This is the the "pure" Spanish promulgated by the Royal Spanish Academy. The voice and choice of words in some performers makes me cringe. They'd be better off saying nothing regardless of native tongue. On the other hand, Rene Levand's Spanish is sheer poetry. I regret non-speakers missing out on the immediate understanding without the aid of a translator. I'd be honored and content to just hear his stories alone without magic tricks. In Spanish of course. I applaud Patrick Differ for teaching English (the most difficult language in the world) in Mexico to Mexicans. I applaud them for wanting to learn it. Now let's be nice and not start fires with this. I love Spanish but resent using it in many regions of Texas where the person I'm speaking to has lived in the US most of his/her life and just 'aint' that good with the native language of English. I don't live in Spain or Mexico but speak their language just fine here and when visiting, do things their way. |
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Patrick Differ Inner circle 1540 Posts |
That's for sure. Nuances lost in translation are gone forever...forever...
Which brings me to another interesting word..."vernacular." I've always favored its definition as being "the word of the day." Forget university profs, forget highschool, forget yer books and perfessors and teechers that didn't know diddly-squat about the difference between how the language is taught and how the language is actually used on a day-to-day basis. Remember idioms, sayings, slangs, and dichos because that's where it's at. Oh, yeah...and don't forget the verbs. They're the words that matter.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy; The way into my parlour is up a winding stair, And I've a many curious things to show when you are there. Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair -can ne'er come down again. |
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Ellen Kotzin Loyal user UPSTATE, NY 280 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-07 12:04, Michael Baker wrote: Hi! I don't know if I'd refer to CAJUN as a subclass, used in Louisiana areas it is used even in books. There are university classes taught on the language, and also it is an offshoot of the acadiens (canadiens) who were expelled to the south. It is it's own culture as well. EBONICS is not a culture, rather a butchered language. Ask Bill Cosby! Ellen |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
I start to wnder if the word in question is creole.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-10 14:17, Ellen Kotzin wrote: Amen! What it REALLY was, to cut to the heart of it, was a shameless attempt by a school district to get federal foreign language funding by mislabeling poor English as a "foreign language."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Ellen Kotzin Loyal user UPSTATE, NY 280 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-10 14:48, Jonathan Townsend wrote: A Creole is actually anyone (people) in the new colony of louisiana---such as French creoles, african-creoles, spanish-creoles and more! Ellen |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-10 14:48, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Probably better had I written more fully: Creole language. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creole_language
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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gsidhe Inner circle Michigan 1725 Posts |
Just a passing memory...But didn't they have the same thing in the UK with the Scots that the US had with ebonics? trying to get it taught as a language?
It's jist a thooght. aam sure th' differences ur quite wee. (english to scot Translator program at http://www.whoohoo.co.uk/main.asp) |
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thegreatsantani New user L.A. 57 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-06 22:33, ChristianR wrote: Before you get to anoyed , let me ask you this, If you met a person from Seoul South korean, what language would you ask them that they speak? Korean? well that would be wrong as they speak Hongul(sp) Do not be mad at someones ignorance but rather educate them as to the proper way. TGS |
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Steve V Inner circle Northern California 1878 Posts |
Ebonics is the term created by a member of the school board in Oakland California. It is nothing more than an attempt by the Oakland district to justify **** poor english skills. It is a joke of a school district that has either been, or is always under threat, of being taken over by the state.
Steve V |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-12 00:45, Steve V wrote: No, actually, it WAS more than that. Federal funds were at stake if they could pass Ebonics off as a "foreign language."
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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JJDrew Loyal user Arizona 221 Posts |
Actually it is a mistake to call Eubonics butchered English. There is no wrong or right in spoken language, there are simply regional differences. When Dante wrote the Divine Comedy, for example, instead of writing in Latin, as was common practice in that period, he chose to write in the Florentine vernacular. That work was so influential that modern Italian is primarily based on that particular dialect. What is "correct" or "incorrect" Italian is judged by those standards. Before the Divine Comedy, all the dialects were on equal footing as far as their linguistic legitimacy. Now all the other dialects are considered "incorrect" Italian.
If Dante had been Neopolitan or Sicilian, modern Italian would sound completely different. There was a time when all Americans were said to be butchering the English language, the assumption being that upper class Britian supplied the "correct" way to speak. Time passed, and American English became recognized as a legitimate written and spoken dialect in its own right. I would say I speak American as opposed to English, and don't think it would be insulting to say someone speaks Mexican. It is unique and pointing that out is not an insult. I don't think Eubonics qualifies as its own language, however. There are much greater differences between the different Italian dialects then between "regular" English and Eubonics. Eubonics is a dialect. This idea of "correct" and "incorrect" language also cross into the world of accents. I grew up in Arizona. The accent there is nearly identical to the California accent commonly heard on American TV. When I moved to Virginia I was surrounded by people who spoke with southern accents. Imagine my shock when ALL of them told me that I spoke normally and they all had accents. It seems to me that, being the outider, I automatically had the accent. However they had been conditioned to consider the way people speak on TV as being accentless and their own way of speaking as an accent. It was truely surreal. Regarding where people are from, people expand the area depending on how far from home they are. If I'm in Phoenix I'll tell people I'm from Sierra Vista. If I'm in Louisiana, I'll tell people I'm from Arizona. If I'm in Italy, I tell people I'm American. Often people from suburbs will say they're from a large city near that suburb. More people have heard of Phoenix then Tempe. The idea is that the further from home you are, the larger the area you'll have to mention to be understood. If Americans call people Asians, it's because they need to study more geography. Sadly, given a blank map, most Americans couldn't label any of the different Asian countries. Then they call someone Asian and people mistake ignorance for disrespect. Finally, regarding the discussion about Americans monopolizing the term "American." Really the U.S.A. is in a no-win situation. Other countries on the American continents do have a right to the title of American. However, we also can't lay sole claim to the term United States. The United States of Mexico and the United States of Brazil also have a claim on that term. There is no word in the U.S.A.'s name that is unique to this country and can be used with exclusivity. Bummer. Of course you can always say the entire country name. "I'm from the United States of America." Unfortunately that smacks of putting on airs, like saying, "My name is Jonathen Beauxrigard Winston Dilys the third." |
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