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Waldo
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If there is a way to hypnotise a person into a dream state then I sure don't know about it. Actually the only times I've ever been sucessful with hypnosis is when I am falling asleep anyway. I can't ever put myself into a real trance while I'm awake, and it would seem almost like narcolepsy to do so. Do any of you know a way to really put someone into a trance state, and by someone I mean myself, where you can see hear and feel experiences that aren't real?
Vanian
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I think you may be falling for some of the mis-conceptions of what Hypnosis is... Did you read Mr. Darrow's FAQ in this forum... I think you may gain better insight to what Hynposis is and is not.
Scotty Mac
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Yes. Go the Danny Doyle show:)! All hypnosis is self-hypnosis any way you look at it.
Waldo
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This has been something almost all hypnotists have claimed to be able to do along with other things like helping people to quit smoking, which is equally hard to believe in. I don't think this is a misconception, I just doubt that people practicing hypnosis are able to do it. If you think it is a misconception then what do you think can be done with hypnosis?
Vanian
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Quote:
On 2006-04-13 22:51, Waldo wrote:
This has been something almost all hypnotists have claimed to be able to do along with other things like helping people to quit smoking, which is equally hard to believe in. I don't think this is a misconception, I just doubt that people practicing hypnosis are able to do it. If you think it is a misconception then what do you think can be done with hypnosis?


Seriously, you really should read the FAQ.

But what I meant by mis-conception is, you can not get anyone to do something they do not want to do and that includes what you mentioned in your first post, seeing, hearing and feeling things that aren't real. The stop smoking thing shouldn't be hard to believe, because it IS real IF the person truly wishes to stop smoking. If they do, then it is a simple matter of changing or reassigning that behavior which is something REAL and easy to do through hypnosis. If they don't wish to stop smoking (i.e., their wife dragged them in to make them stop smoking) then hypnosis will most likely not help them to stop smoking... all of this is explained much better in the FAQ.

Also, don't confuse Stage Hypnosis with Hypnotherapy. Same foundation (if both practitioners are good) but slighty different psychologies. In a Hypnotherapy situation, people must want to achive the goal they are asking help with, with Stage Hypnosis you are relying on the excitment and anticipation of a group of people, on stage, in front of an audience and there is just a different mind-set that goes on for both the Hypnotist as well as the Subject.

Does that make sense?
Waldo
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Actually I have had more success seeing things that aren't real than I have with kicking my nicotine addiction. Having visions is something REAL that I want to experience, and I have had them before when doing hypnosis. The only way I've ever been able to quit smoking on the other hand was when I went camping and was able to detox. After that camping trip I went 3 months without smoking before I started putting it back into my system, and then I relapsed.

If you read one of my other posts on this forum called 'Siesta', I think you would be able to understand the kind of hypnosis I believe in. There is obviously something to waking hypnosis which magicians practice, but I don't think it can do very much in the way of real magick.

In ancient times, and really up until there was light bulbs and television, people would sleep in a segmented cycle. Once it was dark they would go to bed for a few hours, and then they would wake back up before the sun rose. They would have all 'morning' to do what they needed to do for themselves, and could go back to sleep before work, or after work in the after noon.

This was the natural sleep cycle during the times hypnosis was being practiced, so even during daylight hours it could be really easy for someone to slip into trance or go to sleep. People were especially hypnosensitive between the period they first woke up and when they went back to sleep in the afternoon.

The only times I have ever been able to get hypnosis to do anything has been while I was falling asleep anyway. I would lose consciousness and then wake up to find whatever I was working on had come true, like my hand sticking straight into the air, or having a lucid dream. Because of this I don't really feel like the FAQ is really able to speak about really deep hypnosis, and just covers the waking hypnosis that magicians practice.

I will be changing my sleep schedule to a segmented cycle so I can hypnotise myself during the day. I have 3 alarm clocks set up next to my bed that should do the trick. You know some people only take 2-3 hour naps periodicly every 24 hour cycle and never really get a whole nights sleep? They do fine!
Scotty Mac
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Waldo,

It's not clear what you are trying to achieve from your posts. Are you trying to overcome some type of obstacle (smoking, etc.) or are you experimenting with self-hypnosis? Can you please clarify?

It's also hard to tell if you're just yanking everyone's chain. Either way, as Genshi mentioned, in order for the suggestion to work (from a self-hypnosis or clinical perspective) your mental attitude must be " I like that suggestion. I want that suggestion to work."

The suggestion will not have a permanent impact if your attitude is one of the following:

1. I don't know; it sound a little uncomfortable to me.
2. I'm neutral about it. I don't care either way.
3. I hope that suggestion works.

Also, it seems like you are referencing the theta brain wave state (the place your brain waves are right before and after sleep). The theta state has also been identified as the brain wave state when people are hypnotized.

Scott
Waldo
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It doesn't sound like you kno too much about hypnosis scotty. What does any of that have to do with my question?
Scotty Mac
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Nope, I don't know nuthin'
Vanian
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Yeah, he's just yanking everyone's chain trying to start a war or something... move along, nothing to see here.
Waldo
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Just remember that you have to have a chain to yank for someone to yank it...
Lee Darrow
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Waldo, what you are describing is not a dreaming state when you "fall asleep and then wake up with your arm sticking up in the air," but something called post-hypnotic amnesia - amnesia for the trance time, itself, which is something completely different than sleep.

I really suggest that you re-read the FAQ and then take a peek at some of the resources that have been mentioned in here, such as Altered States of Consciousness by Charles Tart or TranceFormations by Bandler and Grinder for a better understanding of the mechanisms of hypnotic amnesia.

Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
Waldo
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It isn't hypnotic amnesia, it happens while I'm falling asleep like I normally do. Unless you want to call sleep itself hypnotic amnesia.
Vanian
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See what I mean? Whoever this [Waldo] guy is, he isn't even willing to listen to reasonable advice, he is just trying to stir up trouble... let's not even bother with this one.
Daniel Santos
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I think the certified practicioners of hypnosis here KNOW what it is, so why won't you just accept what is being told to you? These gents. are extremely skilled. They are only giving you advice. If you want to debate over your OPINIONS, go carry it out somewhere else please. The Café is not a place to start trouble. Just be thankful you are receiving the advice of professionals.
If it is to be, it is up to me.
hypnotize
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There is a state called Hypno-Sleep. Gerald Kein from the Omny Hypnosis training center has released a lecture about it (I have it). You hypnotize someone to sleep, and then implant suggestions. He claims that Hypno-Sleep is the deepest state possible. Dave Elman in his book "Hypnotherapy" also addressed this issue. So I guess it can be achieved.
Vanian
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Quote:
On 2006-04-17 13:40, hypnotize wrote:
There is a state called Hypno-Sleep. Gerald Kein from the Omny Hypnosis training center has released a lecture about it (I have it). You hypnotize someone to sleep, and then implant suggestions. He claims that Hypno-Sleep is the deepest state possible. Dave Elman in his book "Hypnotherapy" also addressed this issue. So I guess it can be achieved.


In hypnosis, there are basically three stages of "trance" (if that's what you want to call it) Hypnoidal, Catalyptic and Somnabulist. These are the three "depths" of hypnosis and within the Somnabulist depth there are three levels that will determine if the subject will have any rememberance of what has happened. But in any case, what Waldo seems to be seeking is still a bit unclear, and the way he goes about asking is not as nice as it could be...
silverfire9
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Regarding Hypno-Sleep, your description of it isn't quite accurate, hypnotize. It's where you take someone who is *already asleep* and *convert* the sleep into hypnosis. Not the most practical of techniques, but definitely interesting in concept. Smile
hypnotize
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I am afraid you are wrong Silver. I read both the book and saw the video.
It's exactly as I said.
Vanian
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On 2006-04-19 12:06, hypnotize wrote:
I am afraid you are wrong Silver. I read both the book and saw the video.
It's exactly as I said.


This may be a term that this particular hypnotist guy uses that is not necessarily an accepted term. We don't use it at the school I'm studying at (which happens to be the largest and the first accredited school of hypnosis) and doing a google search comes up with all sorts of definitions of "Hypno Sleep" such as:

"hypnosleep is a process whereby one takes advantage of hypersuggestibility during the hypnoidal state and converts regular sleep into hypnosis to deliver suggestions."

The funny thing with this statement is that the Hypnoidal stage is the lightest stage of hypnosis (the exact opposite of what your guy says) and if you are in an hypnoidal state, you are usually conscious and NOT asleep.

Several others state "Hypnosleep is where hypnosis is induced from a sleeping state, most commonly with an audio recording that comes on in the middle of the night. The recording usually has something like “You will hear my voice, but you won’t wake up.”

So don't believe everything you read from just one book Hypnotize... either way, silverfire9 hit it on the head.
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