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tommy
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Dai

You have great point and a great smile if I may say so.
Back to topic: I think you can find some good free tips on the net about business presentations and a lot them I think can be applied to magic and this topic. It seems to me the business world has spent a lot of time money on the study of presentation ect and we can take advantage of what they have learnt.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
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Have to agree with Tommy,

Basic rhetoric and communications skills are where one likely needs to look.
Writing for the theater is probably not useful for most unless they have their character and intended message set.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
kregg
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Dai,
You have the Max Holden book, now here's how you use it. Choose a routine that list effects in which you are the most familiar. Why is the trick in that spot, could it have been done elsewhere, what affect does it have on the audience and so on?
A trick might be used in front of the curtain while the crew sets the next illusion. Lance Burton, like Blackstone, used the vanishing birdcage during one set change. It also, gives the performer a chance to be warm and fuzzy with the audience or and set the mood for what's to come. (Remember the story of Blackstone leading the audience out of a burning theater in a calm manner?)
In close up you are the curtain and crew. Jackets, cases, tables, pockets, pouches, gaffs, gimmicks and hands are the tools that allow the magician to reset for the next effect (in the open). If you reach into your pocket for a pen, but fumble around for no reason beneficial to the routine, you'd better clean it up. Otherwise, the pace can fall off, the audience's attention can drift, plus, they could get suspicious.
In the case of the pen; do you need to put it away to clean up your set, can it facilitate a future effect, given away as a souvenir?... the list goes on.

Kregg
POOF!
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On 2006-04-20 23:21, DaiBato wrote:
Keep this all in perspective. This is about routining a magic show, not bringing about world peace.


good thing. Smile
RandyStewart
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Quote:
On 2006-04-20 17:06, bishthemagish wrote:
I just hope we answered daibato's question.


For daibato and others, in more ways than most may think.
calamari
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Once again a great toppic for discussion gets sucked into a I'm right and your wrong bs session, and does very little if anything to discuss the toppic of "how to routine an act" and for those who insist other open their minds and understand that what they say is right and what the other says is wrong... please try to open your own mind. Some of the greatest artist of all time (not just magic) broke all the rules and ended up with something truly unique and wonderfull.
"I came, I saw, SHE conquered." (The original Latin seems to have been garbled.)
tommy
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Quote:
On 2006-04-21 15:28, calamari wrote:
Once again a great toppic for discussion gets sucked into a I'm right and your wrong bs session, and does very little if anything to discuss the toppic of "how to routine an act" and for those who insist other open their minds and understand that what they say is right and what the other says is wrong... please try to open your own mind. Some of the greatest artist of all time (not just magic) broke all the rules and ended up with something truly unique and wonderfull.





I agree 100% I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
JackScratch
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LOL, cute. Calamari, I think the exceptions have been well covered, and of course they exists, but I think setting ground rules for those seeking guidance, is a perfectly acceptable, if not completely responsible action. What we are debating here is not what is possible, but what is probable. It is probable that taking certain steps will make the production of a show better and less painless, for both the performer and the audience.
Dannydoyle
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Not to continue an arguement, but just so it gets said, there IS a right way to do things. Sometimes there is MORE THAN ONE. This is true.

BUT I hate to be politically incorrect because it is so out of vogue today, there is also a WRONG way to do things!

Glenn read your earlier posts and arguements and tell me you can't figure why people thought what they did. You gotta be kidding me. When you mention Jay Marshall as your example, and then call things mumbo jumbo, yea people took things the wrong way. Guess we didn't read between the lines enough. I would think in such long posts you could be a little more clear. You know "less is more".

Did we answer the question? Probably not. Anyone looking for the first answer out of the box, definatly not. Could anyone take these pages and colate them into information on how to routine anything? It would probably be one of the labors of Herculese!

I hope it helped. Good luck with it!

My suggestion is to find someone you kind of agree with and send a PM to find out more!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2006-04-21 23:21, Dannydoyle wrote:
Glenn read your earlier posts and arguements and tell me you can't figure why people thought what they did. You gotta be kidding me. When you mention Jay Marshall as your example, and then call things mumbo jumbo, yea people took things the wrong way. Guess we didn't read between the lines enough. I would think in such long posts you could be a little more clear. You know "less is more".

For some it is better to step back to see the whole picture. Often in a forum it takes many posts to offer an opinion.

I am as clear as a dyslexic person can be. Being able to write clear is a gift that is often taken for granted - and one that I do not have. I write with a 2nd grade reading level. I think it is better not to judge others when you don't see the world through their eyes.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Dannydoyle
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Ok Glenn this is the second time you have played that card and I am going to be VERY politically incorrect here.

First off I never said you read or write at any level. NEVER said it or implied it.

Second off you put yourself forth as an expert with only 40 years performing experience. YOU NEVER SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS STUFF TILL YOUR IN A CORNER AND WANT THE SYMPATHY VOTE!

If you put these things forth, and they are not complete it is not my fault. the problem is people READING them don't know the difference. So if you offer an "imcomplete thought", it is out there. So then we correct it and you get angry.

Whose fault is that? I treat you like a person. Like any person. PERIOD. No better no worse.

I am sorry if thoughts are expressed at a second grade level by you. We judge you as a PERSON, not anything else. What more can you ask for?

But perhaps when someone corrects something if you would simply take it as a correction, simply admit, "yea I wasn't clear sorry", instead of arguing and writing and writing and making it worse, then it would go smoother.

The world through your eyes is irrelivant. YOU put things forth and say you are attacked for them. Well when your wrong your wrong. No indeed I do NOT take into account Glenn Bishops litte world of comprehension. Not for a second. Wanna know why? It is because the first time lookers will not either. It is THEM you are writing too not me. THEY don't know the difference and when it is out there it needs to be corrected.

Wanna know who else dosn't know and more important dosn't care? A paying audience. Think if you sent someone out with the info in just your first few pages of posts. They apply the info from a seasoned 40 year professional. THEN PROCEDE TO BOMB! Who is gonna tell the audience, "well he only writes at a second grade level, let me figure this out"

See the point?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bishthemagish
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I have never posted in this forum from the point of view of being an expert. And in fact have posted that I am not an expert. I do have around 40 years of trying my best to eak out a living in a very small and vanishing market of live variety entertainment. I am no expert but I did not just fall off the milk wagon and decided to start doing magic.

It is also my opinion that people should be accepted as who they are and what they can offer - rather than what can be argued over!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
JackScratch
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Oh Boy. Glenn, I don't think anyone is actualy attacking you here. If you will simply say that you may have been hasty in implying that theatrics are unproductive in anyway, we can all go back to better things. In fairness, wrong or right, your posts have caused some replies that express some brilliant thoughts, which is not without its own value. Concede the point, which it almost, but not quite looks like, you are doing anyway. There realy is no reason for this thread to wind up locked.
bishthemagish
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I agree JackScratch and I think that there is a lot of good information in this thread. I also agree with what you have written in the way of pizza dough. And the act needing a good foundation.

Best of luck.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On 2006-04-22 10:00, bishthemagish wrote:
I have never posted in this forum from the point of view of being an expert. And in fact have posted that I am not an expert.


"I find this very strange - when I was young I used to listen to the past masters that had 40 plus years of experience. Once and a while I would not agree with them but I would still listen. The reason was that if someone that had 40 plus years making a living doing shows. And I wanted to do that. I figured that if they did it 40 plus years - what they would say would be useful." Glenn Bishop

Past MASTER implied? Smile
The One
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I would think so...
I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end...
I came here...
To tell you how this is going to begin.
bishthemagish
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Thank you magicalaurie

But next to any real past master like my Dad and his group of friends I am more like a bug that hits the windshield of a car at 50 miles an hour. I have watched them perform under the best and the worst show business conditions and they were always a class act and a great show.

I remember being at the Stan Kramien Jamboree when I did the book about my Dad that is published by David Charvet. Johnny Thompson was the headliner. This was on top of a mountain I call Mt Kramien because Stan's son owns the land and his house is there.

There was a huge barn like structure that housed the Kramien show that they had the convention in. It was cold and I was coming from warm St. Louis. When I performed on the first night show you could see your breath as you spoke because it was COLD.

Well the second night was Johnny Thompson. He did his act and the mind reading comedy act. He performed and closed the show it was cold. He got a standing ovation and 5 curtain calls in a cold barn like structure in very hard performing conditions. I haven't seen anything like that since I used to watch my Dad and Jay Marshall do outdoor fair shows in the 60's and 70's.

Talk about a class act to me “Those are the guys that got it”.

It is easier to do a show in a theater or in Las Vegas when you have name value and the same theater to work every night. I am not saying that any Las Vegas shows are bad. But it a lot harder to do magic as an art when you have to perform under some very hard performing conditions.

This is one of the reason's I think people like Johnny Thompson is great and I am just hack that eaks out a living. In the small market that I perform in. But I am happy where I am and like myself, and where I am at.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Dannydoyle
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Glenn you wrote an elequant reply, but not to the statement made.

The point, since you seemed to miss it, was YOU IMPLIED YOU WERE A MASTER.

Laurie was kind enough to furnish a quote where you do exactly that.

The reason is when YOU claim to have 40 years experience, and you say these guys have 40 years experience, well you should get the picture.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bishthemagish
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Dai perhaps it would be a good idea if you say what kind of an act you want to do.

That is close up or stage or Illusions.

Ken Brooke once said something I heard on an audio tape that was very helpful to me about the markets that he used to work. His advice was to get an act that was easy to set up. A 20 minute act that you can set and strike in a few minutes so you can do several shows a day.

Many stage or stand up magicians have acts that are like this - a suitcase act.

Just a few more thoughts.

Posted: Apr 22, 2006 5:29pm
Quote:

On 2006-04-22 16:05, Dannydoyle wrote:
The reason is when YOU claim to have 40 years experience, and you say these guys have 40 years experience, well you should get the picture.

Take it or leave it for what it is worth. What I post is nothing more than my opinion or part of my "mumbo jumbo".
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Williamanon
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Quote:
On 2006-04-22 15:27, bishthemagish wrote:
But I am happy where I am and like myself, and where I am at.


And is there anything more important? Thanks for the stories.
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