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DaiBato
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Glenn:

I was concerned with routining a close-up magic show, specifically cards.

Dai Bato
bishthemagish
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Thank you Williamanon....

Cards - my kind of magician. I find that setting up as I go very helpful. Also depending on where you doing card effect. They can be done on a table on a close up mat but they can also be done so the whole room can see them.

There is also some neat little things about doing a four ace effect and then using the four aces help find the card in the next routine. Or use the four aces to cover the coins for matrix if going into a coin effect.

I find the Harry Lorayne books very helpful. There is an effect doing something like roll over aces and produce the aces - then using them in the next effect. I think close up you start by catching there attention, then you draw them in, then you close strong.

One of the things about cards is that they should be strong magic because often people - you can loose their attention with to many take a card effects in a row. Or to many 4 ace routines in a row. The effects should have texture. That is look different. One of my favorite card effect closers for a lay audience is the old card thru box and hank.

The reason I like this is because people can see it from other tables in a restaurant. And it sort of shows you off and what you are doing to the whole room as you close strong and then sell yourself at another table.

This kind of thing is something you can add - but in starting off I think you should do the effects that you know how to do well and then build on that.

Just a few thoughts.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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JackScratch
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Closeup cards realy lend themselves to a "non magician" character". In particular that of the gambler. Do effects that show off your ability at the poker table. What Glenn said about making card trick realy different is good, but I present you with the exact oposite as a possibility as well. One of my favorite close up routines uses a short series of lose and locate effects in a difficulty progression. I start with a transposition, my card goes from their hands to the deck, their card takes it's place. Then I do a triumph, harder to find, more spectacular location. I complete with an ambitious move, and finish with a hindu show, where all the cards in the deck seem to be the card from the ambitious move. then fan the deck showing all different, but saying "So you see, I could have shown you any card, they are all the same." That routine is always well recieved. That is of course the routine without my script.
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“Do effects that show off your ability at the poker table.”

- Jack -

“slights should be employed only as a means to an end.”

- Erdnase -


Jack

When you do effects to show off your ability at the poker table do you find you that you can still act in accordance with the masters advice?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Tommy it all depends on WHY you are performing. Ricky Jay made a living showing off poker skills. He was a performer.

To show off skills at a poker table though is counter productive.

Now to show off to amuse and amaze your friends at a friendly poker game, well that falls somewhere in the middle now dosn't it? Not being paid for the performance puts a different twist on it entirley.

Now to the routining. If you are going to "properly" routine anything it has to have some sort of followable progression. It has to start noticably and finish so it is obvious you are done. This way you avoid the uncomfortable, "well that's it guys" when you run out of stuff to do. It also stops you from having to continue past your "closer", which is again bad.

JackScratch seems to have hit upon this in his earlier post. Without the script to read I think this is what he is doing.

So find and effect you have that never fails, is easy enough to do so you can concentrate on the audience, (without whom all magic is nothing but THEORY) and grab thier attention.

Here is where I get my PM mailbox filled up but I am going to say it anyhow. Remember you are working for the audience, not yourself. As much as magicians seem to love 4 ace routines, and 39 phase oil and water routines, the public really does NOT. I know everyone has "their" routine which kills so save me the trouble of deleting your PM's ok? Even if these things work, they do not INVOLVE the spectator in any tactile way. So avoid them as an opener. Get them involved, speaking, taking cards, remembering cards, and reacting to a conclusion or you will have a tough time capturing their imagination. Not knowing the tricks you can do limits how much I can tell you what to open with.

Remember you have 30 seconds to capture their hearts and their imagination. Fail and you have one heck of a fight on your hands.

The rest of the tricks should lead somewhere so they don't seem like a disjointed series of events. Build tension and every so often you release the tension to give them time to relax. Again the "how" to do this is a much bigger subject than a message board can really help with.

But think of it like a stock market graph. It has ups and downs. So should the show. But over time the market always is eventually "up". Try to do this with the tension in your act. Build and release build and release, build to the conclusion!

The reason for this is we are taking them on a "journey" if you will. We want to take them on as long a journey as we possibly can. The shortest distance between 2 points is a straight line. So if you only build build build,then conclude, it is a relativly short journey. With the stock market graph, you are taking them almost twice as far! In the same span of time. Sounds crazy but it is true.

THIS is the reason you do not take props off of the shelf and just BAM go out and make money. Keep in mind now that "build tension" is a huge term. It can not properly be covered here by anyone. Let alone "release tension".

Then in the midst of all of this you have spectator management, comedy, and things like call backs to consider. Why do you think SO many comics end with a call back?

Heck the last 20 minutes of Mac Kings act IS call backs. This is a reference to something that happened earlier that was either magical or funny. It makes them remember the old joke, and gives it a new look. Kind of a magical or comic 2fer.

I hope this helps. If you would rather, you can just get some props off the shelf in the garage and BAM your making money. I will say one thing for that method, it certianly is easier than all this "mumbo jumbo".

Oh by the way others here will tell you, (Laurie, and George) I have only scratched the surface. Tip of the iceburg if you will.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2006-04-23 07:33, tommy wrote:
“Do effects that show off your ability at the poker table.”

- Jack -

“slights should be employed only as a means to an end.”

- Erdnase -


Jack

When you do effects to show off your ability at the poker table do you find you that you can still act in accordance with the masters advice?

Yes tommy when you use the moves that you do, to cover or shade a kicker ending like in the Harry Lorayne Poker deal. Bottom deal to cover and explained to cover the royal flush ending.

In a poker deal I have found that the move can be a show of skill and cover for something elas or shade for the kicker climax.
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JackScratch
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Quote:
On 2006-04-23 07:33, tommy wrote:
“Do effects that show off your ability at the poker table.”

- Jack -

“slights should be employed only as a means to an end.”

- Erdnase -


Jack

When you do effects to show off your ability at the poker table do you find you that you can still act in accordance with the masters advice?


Good advise, but hard to nail down. Everything anyone ever does is a means to an end. Every action you take, with the possible exception of nervous twitches, is done to accomplish something. All philosophy asside, I am portraying a character, my end is providing evedince that supports that charatcer and the audiences belief that I am who I say I am. It also helps to bring the audience a little of the way into my world. The feeling of being at a poker table with a real cheat without actualy losing all of your money, and traveling back in tiome to the victorian erra. With most of the events I am at, I am doing this not only for my own character, but providing ambiance for a themed event.

Is that a means to and end?
bishthemagish
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Just a few thoughts.

This has been a very exciting thread talking about how to put an act into order and what makes a good act. In view of all this no one has talked about television and how a show or a magic show is edited to be in a certain order before it is released to be viewed by the public.

Often looking at TV and the magic shows and the order that the magic effects are edited together could help as a guideline.

Now having said all that I have decided that my mumbo jumbo and the mumbo jumbo of my family and family magician friends is not "Theater" enough for today's audience so it has now by magic vanished from my web site. That is to say that all the video and all the links have been removed from my web site.

The video will return there one day in a different way - I don't know when - I have to re-do the whole things and I will get to it as soon as I can. Please forgive the badly shot video and theater in the early Charlie Miller film and the legends film.

And the early television bad "theater" and forgive myself and my family as I will not make the same mistake again.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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johnnymystic
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Yeah man, whats up with Bashin' the Bish? Is this a new thing? And who will be next after the Bish Bash is through?

What about Sankey...thinks he's feeling left out?

johnny
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bishthemagish
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Hey johnnymystic thanks for posting I am not up-set or mad or angry - in fact I am a happy man because I love myself and others in this world and I love what I do and the fact that I can do (magic) it for a living.

I have a blessed life.

What magicians think about me really doesn't have anything to do with me. All it is - is there opinion. Nothing more. The only thing that matters in my world according to Glenn is what I think of me and what I have accomplished - and that is it.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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bishthemagish
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Just a few more thoughts toward an act and routine. Consider it mumbo jumbo or take these thoughts for what they are worth.

I have tried to answer Dai's and Tommy's question about magic and why it works. The thing about magic is that I think the goal in magic is to register a magic effect in the mind of the audience. That is the goal as I see it. To register a magic effect - that can't be explained - that was done - and they can’t explain it other than they had the experience of being truly mystified and amazed and in a state of wonder.

To me that is the goal of a magician. Others may have there own goals but this is my goal. To do this I need tools. These are the magic effects and whatever I need that is extra (mumbo jumbo) is used to enhance the tools to get to that goal of mystifying the audience.

This moment of the magic effect and happens in the mind of the audience is a "moment happening" or an experience of magic for a moment. What a magician does in a show is to have many "moments of magic happen" or the audience will experience the moment happening of the "magic effect" several times in a show.

That to me is the goal of a magician.

Now lets try to look at this from the point of view from the audience. They are at a show and there is a magician on the stage. What is a magician? A man that can do wonders? A man or woman that pretends to do wonders? A person that thinks they have magic powers and is going to show them off?

What ever they think it is connected to magic as they have experienced it.

Now my thoughts on script - use one if you want to - don't use it if you do not want to. The audience knows sort of what a magician is going to do. That is magic tricks. As far as I know my Dad did not have any theater training. He may have had theater training in high school and college but I have no idea. As far as I know I have never seen him write out any kind of a script. He wrote out a program or an outline of the order of effects for my Mom but that was about it.

His act was a comedy happening at the moment. A magic show that was a situation comedy that was written while it happened on the stage. A loose order of effects and the only reason for the effects was an excuse to get a person up on the stage and then put them into a situation - that the audience would find funny.

At the same time he would treat his on stage helper with respect and get laughs at the situation not at the spectator. Who my dad was on stage was himself - a guy that thought he was a magician - come up and help me, he said to the audience. One person would come up. He would take out a trick and then the spectator was put into an unexpected situation. The result was comedy - humor = entertainment.

With the magic effect of "how did he do that" at the unexpected climax at the end of the routine. What did he do to get this? Take a trick and then come up with a situation - then he took a bunch of situations and found an audience - and then he put the helper in the situation and then instead of writing a script - the act is a happening and it happens just as the magic effect happens if the situation is the right situation to let magic effects happen.

A script and theater may be important to some - if it is rock on. But this is another way and the way that the Bishop family does things.

I will close my opinion or my thoughts with this.

Each magic effect in a show can be different and the performer doesn't have to make one effect logically follow the other because what holds the show together is the magician - and the reason for the show is the magician is doing magic.

A few years ago it was my privilege to perform a 30 minute magic show for an audience of 60 that could not hear. There was no person to give sign language to tell the audience what I was saying. If there was a person that was suppose to give sign language for the show - they did not show up. The client was in a state of worry if the audience would accept the show as entertainment and might complain because they may not understand the show.

Magic is not (it can be) but it is not a play it is a magic effect experience and a happening.

I set a routine order of really strong magic effects one right after another. Each magic effect was strong in fact so strong and clear that I did not need to say a word for the entire show. There was no music - and the show was just one effect after another.

Like... Chop cup, matrix, Chinese sticks, cups and balls.

Each effect of magic stood on it's own and each effect was a happening of a magic effect for the moment and the show was a great success. I have used this technique for doing shows for audiences that can't speak my language of English. That is there have been times that I have done my show for guests of different organizations of whole audiences that have no idea of what I am saying. But the magic effects are strong enough to stand on there own.

Just as a side note audiences in Europe when they enjoy a performing audience they all clap at the same time. The whole audience will clap and clap and there is silence between each clap. When this happened to me the first time I had no idea what was going on. Then the client said to me - they do that and that is the way these audiences show how much they enjoyed a performing artist. It is like a standing ovation. Get out there and take another bow!

Just a few more thoughts and opinion on magic and routining and how the Bishop family presents their mumbo jumbo! It may not be your cup of tea - but it works for me and it works for others.

Find what works and use it!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Dannydoyle
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So Glenn let me ask you something. Seriously.

Are you then an expert because you are using your dads name?

Or are you just the guy trying to eek out a living in a small market who has trouble communicating? Which are you trying to be here? It is unclear.

An expert? Or an guy eeking out a living? Let us know because it matters here.

You seem to want to post using your dads name and credibility. His years of respect. So you seem to be telling us as an "expert" that you should do things this way.

If this is not your intent, then state so, that way we know.

This is why people attack you for your "opinion" you try to imply a level of expert with the names and stories.

So if your not trying to say you are some sort of "expert" and not trying to ride some coat tails for your "opinion", then fine it is an opinion from a guy eeking out a living in a small market.

If your comming off as the expert, then we have to tell you how wrong you are.
Danny Doyle
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bishthemagish
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Quote:
On 2006-04-24 16:30, Dannydoyle wrote:
So Glenn let me ask you something. Seriously.

Are you then an expert because you are using your dads name?

Or are you just the guy trying to eek out a living in a small market who has trouble communicating? Which are you trying to be here? It is unclear.

An expert? Or an guy eeking out a living? Let us know because it matters here.

You seem to want to post using your dads name and credibility. His years of respect. So you seem to be telling us as an "expert" that you should do things this way.

You can think what you want to and have your own opinion about me. I am sharing ideas if you do not like the ideas that I share. I have no problem with that. If you want to argue ideas - I am out the door.

That is my answer to the above. If you do not like it I hope you find a way to work your problems out. Because you and your opinions about what I share or about me as a person - are just your opinion and not my problem.

That is my answer!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Dannydoyle
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Glenn it is not an answer at all. And you know it, but that is fine.

Not answering is all the answer really needed to see your qualifications to make this statement.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bishthemagish
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Your opinion and to me it doesn't matter at all.

To others it is part of a forum called - Food for thought. "This is the area to discuss creativity,theory,and psychology in our magic".

My web site is http://www.bishmagic.org - http://www.mrhypnotist.org - http://www.bishmagic.org

Some people are worth a person's time and others are not. We used to get people that were into magic all the time that needed attention. Most of them were very nice people but some needed a lot of attention and they would suck the life out of you. We used to call them black hole magicians because when they catch you in their "attention vortex" it seems that they will say anything to get a rise out of you.

Since the shop days I try to avoid these people as a waist of my time.

Back to routining an act one of the great tools to routine an act and get it into shape for a show is to use a video camera. That is to tape your show as an act and then watch it with a note pad.

Then try to add little entertaining bits of business as you watch the tape. Then re-tape and do it again. I heard about that idea from a "live magician" and then started to use it. Later I got a stack of video's from the local library about how Charles Chaplin worked and he did about the same thing with his comedy movies. People discovered he had stacks and stacks of film that he made than re-made over and over again just to get one film done. These films are for sale in a set that talks about how he worked and put it all together.

That idea works really well for magic. And if you tape yourself in front of a live audience and keep doing it (with a note pad and add and take out bits of business) your show could get very sharp.

Just some thoughts.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Dannydoyle
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Glenn we are trying to understand you is all.

And yea it seems impossible
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
bishthemagish
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Sort of proves you don't know me after all!
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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kregg
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Danny and Glenn if you need more privacy to get aquatinted - why don't you exchange e-mails or PM one another?
POOF!
bishthemagish
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Well kregg it has been tried but things often don't work out. I get e-mail all the time from people and magicians that surf the web and run into my web site. Then they e-mail me and say they remember me from the old magic shop days. Once and a while it is a person that I can remember and often it is a person that I have no idea who they are.

That magic shop was open for more than ten years in three different locations. That shop and the table magicians used to sit at gave a lot of people attention. One of the magicians came into the shop and just wanted some tricks to entertain his kids and others at his kids birthday party.

He ended up loving magic and purchased magic and sat at my Dads table and listened to the advice. Two or three years later he was doing a professional show and was one of the most booked family acts in Chicago.

The WAS a top pro in about two to three years because he worked hard and did his homework. But may have never gotten into magic had he not walked into my Dads store and got magic and the free advice that my DAD and others GAVE.

This happened to lots of magicians over the years - some I can remember and some I can't. But there are also people that say they knew me and my Mom and day and I have no idea who they are. Perhaps they just met them at a show or at one of the SAM meetings and they would not remember them.

I met Darwin Ortiz and have seen him lecture and talked with him but I would lay odds that if I came up to him and said "hey remember me" he would have no idea who I was.

I have met Michael Ammar several times and had dinner with him. I Performed a close up show along side of him at the Houdini Convention. And I would lay odds that if I met him again - he would not remember me. Why? Because we meet so many people often it is hard to remember them.

The other thing is I am not a PM kind of a guy. One of the things about newsgroups and forums is that magicians and the PM's often form little gossip groups or clicks. That is fine if they want to do that. But If I take the time to write something and I am answering a question that someone asked in a PM. I would rather share it with the group and that way it can possibly help more than one person.

That is also true about the e-mail I have gotten about my web site http://www.bishmagic.org and when the vintage video is going to be put back up. Well I took it down because it did not please the "theater" magicians.

And it is easier to answer the questions if I just post it once in a forum instead of writing many PM's or e-mail. The answer is I don't know. I am in no hurry to re-do the http://www.bishmagic.org web site.

If Danny wanted to get to know me - just go to my web sites and most of the questions would be answered if they were really questions to begin with and not ranting.

By the way the old magic shop days were about ten seconds out of a lifetime in magic from the lifetime in magic of Billy Bishop.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

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Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
Dannydoyle
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What?

Glenn you have selective amnesia. I was one of those who came into the shop.

Nice to see that the more things change the more they stay the same.

Under 50 words is not a rant.

Posted: Apr 25, 2006 5:05pm
And just so clarify things, I and others are NOT posting specifically to Glenn. I don't think he is willing to learn.

It is for those who may be reading some of the information. It may or may not be correct and it needs to be said.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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