The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » How to routine an act? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..6~7~8~9~10~11 [Next]
JackScratch
View Profile
Inner circle
2151 Posts

Profile of JackScratch
Hey Danny, that's some good stuff there. Wish I had said it that way.

I absolutely must go on record as saying that I couldn't care less that Glenn used the words "Mumbo Jumbo", and that in fact not a single one of my replies has been in any way directed at that statement. It's all the rest of the things he has said concerning the importance of preporation other than effect practice, that I take enormous issue with. I also take issue with thew concept put forth that bad acting and melodrama are created by "too much theatre". But no, I'm not that worried that he called theatrical theory "Mumbo Jumbo".

I am far more concerned that he has repeatedly defended the concept that one need not ever consider ones performance outside of the actual performance itself. I know that in reality he doesn't actualy believe that, but he has repeatedly given the impression that he does. I'm certain that what Glenn does before he performs is somewhere between my scripting, editing, blocking, and rehearsing regiment, and grabing some props and heading out the door. I am equaly certain that regardless of how good Glenn's performance is, if he were to practice my suggested regiment, it would improve the product he delivers to his audience to some degree.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16362 Posts

Profile of tommy
I was just thinking that the real magic in the magicians wand is that it can be used to connect any magic effect to another.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27241 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
Quote:
On 2006-04-20 09:41, tommy wrote:
I was just thinking that the real magic in the magicians wand is that it can be used to connect any magic effect to another.


Take the next step

Because

be cause

the use of a wand signals the application of will.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16362 Posts

Profile of tommy
I will have to think about the "why" as I am not smart enough to understand that John. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Jonathan Townsend
View Profile
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
27241 Posts

Profile of Jonathan Townsend
The audience presumes you have a why when you act.

What you act upon is the be and you are the cause.

And when you respond to the effects of your magic, they will infer your "why".
...to all the coins I've dropped here
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6013 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
Quote:
On 2006-04-20 09:41, JackScratch wrote:
I am far more concerned that he has repeatedly defended the concept that one need not ever consider ones performance outside of the actual performance itself. I know that in reality he doesn't actually believe that, but he has repeatedly given the impression that he does.

Sorry to give that impression but that is not even close to anything I have said.
Quote:
On 2006-04-20 09:41, JackScratch wrote:
I'm certain that what Glenn does before he performs is somewhere between my scripting, editing, blocking, and rehearsing regiment, and grabbing some props and heading out the door.

What I do before a performance is take a shower and then put on clean clothes. Then I brush my teeth and once and a while I eat something because I do not eat or drink at shows - even if invited. Then I take the directions and drive to the show location in plenty of time to set up whatever I brought.

If I am lucky or have the time I often drive to the show location two or three days in advance so I know where it is and can get a look at the performing stage. I always bring extra magic and have back up. Because often when doing close up I will be asked to do 15 minutes of stand up just to let the group or audience know who I am and why I am there.

Now as to "scripting, editing, blocking, and rehearsing regiment," that has already been done. First on paper and it is a basic list that I have and the order I do my show. Including music cues. This is attached to a clipboard and in a place I can see it. Because often when performing your mind jumps.

As to "grabbing some props and heading out the door" that is not what I said to do. I suggest magicians to use what they have. It would be very silly for a magician starting out to grab some props and head out the door and start doing them. Where would he start doing them? His front yard? The local grade school? The playground? Not without permission or a booking unless he does street magic and then he would need to find out in the city if it is OK with the city.

I do not understand how anyone would think that this is what I imply. I guess I have to spell it out with every little detail. Then perhaps they would be happy.

OK here goes.

There are lots of magicians that want to do magic after they get into magic. They have stuff that they buy that they do not use.

Step one - Look at the stuff you own.

Step two - Make a list of what you own.

Step Three - Put it into an order with an opening and a closing and some good things in the middle.

Lets say it is a family show and this is what you own.

Vanishing magic wand
Chinese sticks
linking rings
Coloring book
Die box
Professor's Nightmare

Put the list in order. Now practice that order in real time. That is to get up and run through the show trick for trick. Change the order several times making notes. Get your kids to watch and do it again. At this stage If you like write out what you are going to say in script form and keep practicing. This is what I did way back when I did my act of coffee cans and cardboard tubes.

Do you remember when I said that I had to do this in front of my parents before they cleared me the OK to do shows for free? Does it sound like that was what I was implying when I wrote about this. Or that I imply - ""grabbing some props and heading out the door"? But no one wants to even mention this part of the thread. Why? Because they are hung up on a story I shared about doing a show with Jay Marshall. And the fact that Jay took some stuff off the shelf and went and did a show. And they thought that I was implying that success in magic was to - ""grabbing some props and heading out the door".

The point of the story with Jay was to tell people that doing small shows is OK. Jay Did them - my dad did them and I do them. Small shows are a part of magic and people like to slam people that do small shows. My point was have fun doing small shows.

Some in magic do not want to start by doing small shows so many do not start at all and others try to start at the top and over charge or charge a professional fee before they are ready.

Now back to taking about what I did when I was eight years old and point out a few more things that I already wrote that no one wants to talk about. After my show was cleared and OKed by my parents I took an add in the newspaper - Free magic show by 8 year old magician "Needing performing experience".

Then I got calls to go out and do my show and this was the most important learning experience. Yes each show is not perfect. Yes magicians should do this but I would bet almost no magician in the Café has done this. The free shows later until I was about 13. Then I charged 2.00 and then at 15 I charged 5.00.

The interesting thing is that I road test my ideas and the new things I put into my show in much the same way. The magic is different. I don't put my props in a little red wagon but they go in a little red van.

Now why magicians do not look and consider the posting as part of a continuing story I do not know. And like to focus in and nit pick on little things and do not seem to look or see the big picture. No one even asked me - "Hey Glenn is this what you meant when you wrote this?” Not one person! Instead people are more interested in assuming and then writing what ever they want to write - even when they did not understand what I was trying to say. All I hear is - No I do not agree with that. What is it with magicians - is there something in the water that make them respond like this?

This is a very big problem in magic because magicians when watching another magician they focus in on the picture (or what they do) and hardly ever watch or care about the effect it has on the audience that they are doing it for.
Quote:
On 2006-04-20 09:41, JackScratch wrote:
I am equally certain that regardless of how good Glenn's performance is, if he were to practice my suggested regiment, it would improve the product he delivers to his audience to some degree.

I suggest that magicians look at the BIG picture and stop nit picking on little things. The act is a tool to get a magic effect in the mind of the audience! Magicians say - I do not like his tools. Or I do not like the painting - So what go out and paint something yourself and see if other magicians like it.

But if another magician likes it or not that is not the quest. The quest is to have the audience like it. And from where I sit - I make that goal and have been successful at making that goal for a long - long time.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
kregg
View Profile
Inner circle
1958 Posts

Profile of kregg
Jonathan,
I wrote a quote based on a story I'd read years ago about a lion trainer who'd forgotten that he was lower on the food chain. "He who phones it in, gets mauled by tigers."

Kregg
POOF!
Donnie
View Profile
Loyal user
224 Posts

Profile of Donnie
I agree with Glenn in the sense that certain people have the tendency to rely too heavily on a rigid structure and that renders their magic sterile. I know that you're not bashing theatre or scripting but you just feel that they can sometimes limit the spontaneous quality of a performance and I agree with you. As far as routining is concerned I follow the aphorism "Science begins as philosophy and ends as art." I begin with an idea, I test it through performances and sculpt it no a workable fun piece or I toss it. Now the question that begat this thread amounts simply to, On what basis do I compile those first ideas? Well as I think Danny and Lauri alluded to theatre is a great place to start and I wholeheartedly agree with them. Whether it is listening to a woody allen stand up cd, taking an acting class, or watching circus d'ole in your underwear eating pudding. Theres so much to learn from theatre both conciously and unconciously. Also, there is a tremendous amount to be learned from picking a magic trick and finding ways to make it work for an audience (which goes back to Glenn). Don alan tossed out soemthing interesting in pretty sneaky when he said all of his best gags or ideas or refinements have occurred to him while performing We can all definately relate to that. During a performance our senses are heightened and the routines strentghs and weaknesses become very clear. Ergo I think that trial and error is a very worthwhile process (if Darwin were here hed say I told you so). But again participating in a community play or even writing one is a tremendous education in itself. Theatre proposes very relevant questions that we often can't pin point on our own. So anyway as for my routine I do some cards tricks and tell some jokes.
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6013 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
Great post Donnie thank you for posting it.

There are a lot of ways to do it and often magicians have to take what they have and then work it out - and find out what works for them. One of the interesting things that Don Alan also said that "if you NEED to be a magician you will find your way".

But I think that magicians argue magic to much instead of talking magic. With talking magic there is education. When arguing magic - there is less education - (if any) - and more ego like there is suppose to be some kind of a winner.

When talking magic ideas - every one wins.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
JackScratch
View Profile
Inner circle
2151 Posts

Profile of JackScratch
See if this applies to what we are talking about. We may all be saying the same thing and arguing over it. If what I wrote in this thread makes sense to any of you, we might can end this thread right here. If not, there's a big debate yet to come.


http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=106
Donnie
View Profile
Loyal user
224 Posts

Profile of Donnie
Jack I agree with this, "You are never done. This process is a living one. Every time you perform watch for new ideas to add. Watch for things that just are not eliciting the reaction they should from your audience." Nicely said. I don't agree with this, "Never be emotionally attached to your work." Never is a little harsh. I appreciate your sentiment and agree that clinging to a piece of magic like its wreckage of a sinking ship is not the best idea, however it can be very endearing to watch someone perform an effect they really love or has special meaning to them. I don't know that I completely agree with this "Once you have come up with a theme/plot for your routine WRITE IT DOWN!!! Do not think for a moment that having the idea is enough. Do not allow that concept that since you developed the idea, that it is sufficiently in your head, and there is not need for actual pen to paper or hand to keyboard." Nietszche likened the process of describing something in such a detailed fashion to capturing a bird and holding it so tightly that he croaks. Conversely, writing a script is often a strong foundation for many performances but not all the time. I feel that a lot of performances evolve organically in front of an audience, without ever having to be written out. Finally I must disagree with your statement "Improvisation is a myth". After speaking to many performers who use detailed scripts including Greg Wilson they assured me that their script allows them to improvise. In a way it acts as a safety net so they can walk the tightrope with more courage. So on nights when improvising isn't cutting it (which happens) they have their script. However on those special occassions when things click the script can be tossed. All in all Jack, I think you have some worthwhile advice. I would just be cautious that I don't kill that little bird.
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6013 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
I like pizza with cheese and mushrooms.

Another likes pizza with Canadian bacon.

Another likes it with sausage.

It is still Pizza any way you look at it - why argue over which way is the best way to make pizza or the best way to enjoy it. Enjoy the pizza.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
kregg
View Profile
Inner circle
1958 Posts

Profile of kregg
Perhaps some Café members should take the next step and write a book, then see how many people buy it.
POOF!
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6013 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
I just hope we answered daibato's question.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
magicalaurie
View Profile
Inner circle
Ontario, Canada
2957 Posts

Profile of magicalaurie
I dunno. Smile
JackScratch
View Profile
Inner circle
2151 Posts

Profile of JackScratch
Do you like Pizza without dough? Foundation is everything.

When I say "improv is a myth", I don't mean Improv is a myth. It is a basic ground to start with. Assuming improv gives the validation to fall flat on your face needlessly in the begining of ones career. Honestly, I don't believe that there is anyone who is ever going to read this thread who can come even close to standing on improv alone. The odd individual who can entertain with only improv is the exception. Slight deviation from a script when called for is not what I call improv, if you do, then yes, improv is fine. Going up in front of an audience with no script is just bad planning.

As for that book. I'm writing it, but don't look for it on shelves next week, these things take time.
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16362 Posts

Profile of tommy
DaiBato! Yes, I remember him well.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
bishthemagish
View Profile
Inner circle
6013 Posts

Profile of bishthemagish
Pizza dough is important often people would not like a pizza with to much on it and if they leave it in the oven to long. Over doing a pizza or over cooking it can also wreck a pizza.

And there are those things for people that are starting out that don't know how to make a pizza. There are frozen pizza's - French bread pizza. Just as there are paint by numbers for artists that are just in magic for the fun of it.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
tommy
View Profile
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
16362 Posts

Profile of tommy
It matters not what pizza you like, as you don't have to eat it, they do.

If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kinda pussy to drink it. Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
DaiBato
View Profile
Veteran user
310 Posts

Profile of DaiBato
Guys, please stop bickering. I just wanted opinions on how to routine a magic show. I didn't mean to start an argument.

Keep this all in perspective. This is about routining a magic show, not bringing about world peace.

Dai Bato
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » How to routine an act? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3..6~7~8~9~10~11 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2022 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.07 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL