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Ray Haining
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Inner circle
Hot Springs, AR
1866 Posts

Profile of Ray Haining
Magicelam, because it's "coin in bottle" and not "coin in and out of bottle" and "cap in any bottle" compared itself with that trick, having evolved from it, and with "coin in bottle" the coin comes out of the bottle. Ergo, the cap must too.

The implication is there.

Please don't say the addition of the word "any" makes any difference.

The internet is about information, and to start listing tricks that are being sold dishonestly was the idea behind this thread (and the other one; maybe, I'll see if I can get the two combined), a source of information.

And so I applaud the effort of Howard Coberly, above, to begin to such a list.
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Malaysia, now In New Zealand
290 Posts

Profile of paulmagic
I would love to see such a list, quoting Howard Coberly above

"I am currently putting together a list of tricks that I feel to have blatant lies in their descriptions. As soon as I'm sure that I won't be sued for doing so, I will post the list. Right now it is pretty long.

Do I have a personal vendetta against these sellers? No. We are now paying over 3.00 per gallon for gas. We are watching our money closer than we ever have in other aspects of our lives and magic should be no different."

Yes, I will probably be shot down for this but ... for people like me, fighting hard to honor original magic products etc despite the disdavantage of:
1. unfavourably exchange rates
2. extremely high postage costs
3. rising cost of living etc

Dollar for dollar I have to pay 4 to 6 times more than for any magic item than magicians in USA. And it sucks that many items I save up to buy don't turn out as expected. Some can argue all they want about it being my fault that I have misunderstood the description of the trick etc, but it boils down to a differnt version of the old legal vs ethical debate.

Magic vendors, creators, sellers whatever ... need to know that if you want people to respect IP, go the extra mile and consider the spirit not the letter of the law etc need to try to be consistent as well in their thinking.

Arguments on ethcis etc tend to be lopsided - defending the creator's rights etc but what about the buyers rights?
So there are unseen and unwritten (but expected assumptions) on stuff like performing rights, the cost is not just in the product ... you are buying the secret etc. Fine. But what about he stuff that has been brought up here?
I am not mentionin any product in particular but ...
For example, what does a phrase like "instantly resets" mean? Different products instantly resets differntly - some fast and some slow ... and have to go away somewhere private to do it, others you can do it right in your audience's face.

For eg some trick is advertised as easy but after you buy will tell you that you need to use a certain sleight but doesn't explain properly how the sleight works. You find it difficult and while some of course seasoned magicans might argue that those are basic sleights, you struggle because it is not clear how it works. The term easy is relative.

Then there are demo videos which give you a certain impression of the trick - buy them and find the videos have edited out certain things that if you knew, you would not have purchased.

I am sure others can give numerous better examples.

I still buy originals but I must say I often feel cheated. Some may not bother as even if it is a USD 20 trick that doesn't meet his expectations, he can just toss it aside as a bad buy. Big deal. Now think ... that for me USD 20 trick would translate to you paying USD 80 - 120. If you were in my shoes, would you not be disillusioned.

One example of what I think is sublty deceptive. I have for exmaple bought an effect that gives you the impression for example that no matter what number is chosen (between 1 to 10), the selected item is forced naturally. It's a self working trick - fool proof - what more could one ask for! Demonstration is given - volunteer selects for example, EIGHT - he counts and the selection is correct. Wow. You are sold. Then you find that for most of the other numbers selected it is blatanly obvious that something is totally fishy. Numbers for example are spelt and you realise that if a volunteer picks one of these numbers, half the audience who are decently sharp will challenge you! Now what? You bought it, so you try it and true enough, you get busted!
Wasted money, loss of face and the trick lies in the bottom of a dusty old box or even thrwon out with the garbage.
Of course, the argunent will be - ah! you didn't present it properly etc. That's why you got caught etc etc. BUt excuse me, it is a self working fool proof trick!

Real magicans should know better? True, I am a lot wiser now BUT at what cost?

I think I have said enough Smile
Many Blessings!!

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Loyal user
Malaysia, now In New Zealand
290 Posts

Profile of paulmagic
One additional comment. I would want to give the benefit of the doubt that many who seel "magic" may not mean to be deceptive. I suppose it can be hard to describe a trick without giveing away the secret. However ... in any discussion of magic in ethics, surely equal consideration must also be given to the end user
Many Blessings!!

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