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Doug Higley
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About every 15 seconds a new book of tricks and methods and goodies shows up for sale.

Or you buy a routine and somebody says don't do it THAT way...so & so's method is better and faster...just get "How I do a Tongue Stand On The Head Of A Pin" by Joe Shmo and you'll love it! There's wealth of material in there too!"

Well, I don't necessarily want a 'wealth' from EVERYbody on the planet who writes a book....I can't and you can't AFFORD it just to get a single effect...and being of the UTMOST in ethics, I won't ask how a certain thing is done unless offered by the creator.

SO...here's a grain of salt...you creators and authors out there, write your books, create your miracles but CONSIDER setting a value for the indivuidual bits of business.
Most will still buy the book...but some of us might just need and be willing to pay for a certain 'something' of information. I PayPal you $10...you email me the piece I want to or need to know. If your book sells for $20, I just saved $10 I don't have on information I don't want or need...and you made $10 for one bit.

I know I know...just buy the book...yeah right...all of them...line up please....


Just an idea.

Doug
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tommy
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Devil’s Island
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Yes it’s like that “Lady Chatterley's Lover” I only like a few pages in that book.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
RandyStewart
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Well Doug you spoke my mind there as I've paid for the entire E-book to get to just ONE idea or effect. Nothing I could do in that instance but found the remainder of the book of no use to me no matter how wonderful the author or others claimed it was.

I recently purchased another 40 page E-book from a PhD in Mycology and expert on Fungi. I cultivate my own Shiitake, Oyster, and Reishi mushrooms. Now I don't need anyone rolling eyes and making fun by suggesting I might be cultivating Psilocybe or Psychotropic specimens. I don't condone it's use and, they infact, can be very dangerous.

Anyway, back on topic, the doctor has several books now available in PDF (E-book) format. Until now, you previously had to buy the entire hardbound copy. He's now broken up the information like this:

(E-book) Vol I $21.99
(E-book) Vol II $21.99
(E-book) Both Vol.1&II $$42.99

(Mailed hard copy) Vol I $34.99
(Mailed hard copy) Vol II $34.99

All I needed since I'm familiar with the other propagation techniques in his book was a chapter in Vol.II.

He offered the 34 page E-book for that specific chapter at just $11.00 which I just downloaded last night. He will get much of my future business in regards to his information. His site even convinced me to sign up for his newsletter $24/year. So he got the $11 for the E-book and $24 for subscription. He'll undoubtedly be getting my future business regarding sales of his published works since he'll allow buyers to take only what they need.

Part of his response to my message and thanks for making the information available in parts:

"Randy, thanks for purchasing the 'Sterilization and Peroxide Techniques' from me. I offer parts of my publications for sale in response to experienced growers who don't need all inclusive information found in other books".

The doctor has now had E-book sales downloaded in 79 countries! He said most of those sales comprised of growers taking only what they needed from his works. Go figure.
bishthemagish
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Hey Doug Higley I know how you feel because I have often paid money for a book or a DVD just to get one effect or an idea. They say that if you get one good idea or one good effect out of a book it is worth the price of the book - or product.

I don't know if it holds true for others but if I use the idea and I make money with it I am often glad I got the idea from the book.

I would like to also say a few words about magic products in general. There are two different kinds of magic products sold in the magic market. The first one is a product or an idea or a book that was used by a professional magician that did shows. Or something out of the magicians act. The Harry Anderson products - most of them were out of the comedy act of Harry Anderson when he used to do night clubs. Or the Card Magic of LePaul - that book was a lot of stuff right out of the card act of Paul LePaul. So in other words the magic was "audience tested". And worked for them.

The other products are products that are made by magic manufactures. These are made a lot by knocking off an idea of a performer. Or making a product with a few changes. A lot of magic ideas that are re-hashed and made from different materials for a product to sell to magicians. Some of this stuff is good and some of this stuff is not good. The rope trick professors nightmare and cups and balls come in here because a lot of manufactures make them.

What magicians buy depends on what there needs are. Pro magicians and performers need magic to satisfy an audience and the client.

Other magicians that don't perform for a living and do few shows need magic to satisfy there own personal needs to grow and learn in the art of magic.

Two different needs from two different kinds of magicians. It seems that we have conflict when we confuse magic as an art and magic as a business.
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
RandyStewart
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I see your point Glenn. The only thing I know to be true in this instance is that every E-book I purchased was for one, and only one, specific item. The rest of no use to me. For those who aern't looking for specific information, well they should just buy the entire book as it wouldn't hurt to do so.

I think I'll wait to hear from someone here who has experience in the sale of creative intangible property (whether whole or in parts) and or tangible magic effects.
Doug Higley
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Exactly randy...there ya go.

Nothing against certain books or authors...quite the opposite.

In my case, it would be an EXTRA $10 in the authors pocket because I'm NOT going to buy the book just to see a routine I MIGHT want to use with something else I just paid $60 for (or whatever bucks).

And something like this crops up all the time...almost daily really and that is silly aint it.

Example:
I just ordered Wayne's "Stigmata" for example...somebody posts that Acid Novus is kind of slowgoing for a p**k (or whatever it is) and nothing beats the Taylor book 'Inside Out' for a different method to get the information. Well...ok..there's another one to consider...a book of neat stuff probably and some card trick info (I don't do cards) and $20. Now I'll always be glad to see new ways to get info (this one I guess uses a Post-It Note...but is it the same Post-It stuff so widely known already?) You know what, I'll spring for $10 to get THAT info but I don't need or want the other stuff at THIS time and am tapped out so won't get the book...Mr. Taylor is out an easy $10 and I use old tried an true methods till whenever. Just seems like an easy fix for everybody. By the way I'm not picking on Taylor...just an example that is at the moment in my pea brain.

Christopher Taylor deserves every penny for the book he worked hard to produce...and I will probably wind up getting what I hear is a great little book...but this idea is how he (or whomever) could squeeze a few extra sheckles out of the labors.

The thing is, this is only one of hundreds...many hundreds, that are alluded to on the Café durng any given month. I have a little act...there are 9 fast routines (mix and match)...I don't do hundreds of tricks nor need hundreds of books and methods...but like everybody else I sure like to enhance what I do do...enough...you get it...

DH
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JackScratch
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See, I'm from the "never buy a single effect" camp. Now I get the impression that you are speaking more of the routines sold with the effects, but even with that, I prefer to purchase resouces such as DVDs and books containing many effects. You just can not realy purchase a single effect and expect it (statisticly speaking) to serve you. Now, do we need every Tom, Dick, and Harry's philosophy on performance? Well, I think a little yes and no. I think having a lot of philosophy at your fingertips couldn't hurt. Particularly if you have a selection of effects to choose from that ofsets the cost of that philosophy. That's one of the reasons I'm such a huge fan of Mark Wilson. Even if I can't use any of his performance guidance (and in fact I can) there are so many effects in that book, that I can' thelp but find enough to justify the purchase price. I feel all magic purchases should be made in that manner.
Jaz
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The idea is a good one.

I pass up a lot of stuff where one or two routines that look good and the rest don't appeal to me or seems too costly.

When I first started studying I bought books that focused on specific items. Coins, cards, rope, showmanship, finger rings, bar magic, etc, etc.

Today I find myself buying only those one trick effects or manuscripts that appeal to me and that fit in with what I like to do. There are quite a few inventors and dealers who are doing this. Who knows where it will go?
RandyStewart
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Quote:
On 2006-04-24 18:06, JackScratch wrote:
You just can not realy purchase a single effect and expect it (statisticly speaking) to serve you.


For those who understand the effect and have a place for it within their act, yes you can as I do it all the time. I do it all the time while having to leave out the rest of the material that came with that one gem I sought.
JackScratch
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The (statisticly speaking) part is an important one. For me, it is a statement more about what the average person will experience an average number of times, given the circumstance. If you have purchasing effects down to an art form, then good on you. I'm just saying that there are more efficient ways for most of the people visiting these forums to do it.
kregg
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Wasn't this put into practice years ago with Packet Tricks?
POOF!
Doug Higley
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Jack Scratch says: "I feel all magic purchases should be made in that manner."


I said MOST people will still buy the books...but ALL?
This idea is obviously not for everybody. How do you feel I should order my Burgers? Smile
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Jonathan Townsend
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If the author is also the publisher/distributer/seller... the scheme makes sense.

All of the sudden you have strange print runs and item accounting to worry about.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dave V
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Quote:
On 2006-04-24 23:31, kregg wrote:
Wasn't this put into practice years ago with Packet Tricks?

Well, almost. But most of the routines (the ones that don't require specially printed cards) were bundled into books. If you were interested in just one you still had to buy all of them.

I've repeated Doug's question in the Michael Ammar guest forum. I'd like to hear what he has to say about this. Someone like him who has a large range of effects published could do well by offering "singles" in this way.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
kregg
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Don't get me wrong I think it's a great idea; iTunes (Napster) for magicians.
I never knock packet tricks, I learned a lot from them starting out as a kid.

Great question Doug.

Sincerely,
Kregg
POOF!
Cameron Francis
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I like this idea a lot. I feel it would work very well for ebooks. Economical for all invloved.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
rikbrooks
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Isn't this just an extension of lecture notes or 'instant downloads'?
Dave V
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Penguin's "Instant Downloads" are a big hit with the younger crowd. Why not do the same for us older guys?

But rather than someone new on the scene putting out an instant download before it's time, or renaming old effects, I'm thinking more of the "classics" of magic that are hidden in books, broken out into singles. These would out of necessity be produced by the originators to avoid the copy cat syndrome that currently plagues Penguin's (and others) offerings.

For example, I think Ron Bauer's series would make an ideal ebook library. They're already composed on computer, all that needs to be done is save them in a distributable format and eliminate the printing costs. As I commented in the Ammar forum, I'd love to see some of his earlier gems individually offered, priced such that if you buy more than a few it's easier to buy the whole book, so book sales don't suffer. That way you get the best of both!
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Doug Higley
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Rikbrooks...yes it is...of course...nothing new really...in fact that's how I do things myself, like with the Traps Routine as a single-o email.

But there us a tremendous amount of material with which it wouldn't even be considered to split it up from the main mothership...

My point is directed at author/publishers to simply consider the option...

Lee Darrow in the Ammar thread, related this as Magic iTunes or a Single from an Album...nothing new here but I think, timely.
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bishthemagish
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I think Vinny the Godfather has a great idea. He sends out moves via e-mail to help others learn. He has sent me a lot of great moves and routine ideas over the last year.

Great stuff, Vinny. Thank you for sharing your ideas.

Glenn
Glenn Bishop Cardician

Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro

Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs
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