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Antino
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Hey, I'd just like to vent some frustration for a sec:

Magicianal adolesents. They're part-time mages, generally between the ages of 13 and 20, who's performing experience is confined to unpaid skillustration exhibitions for friends that are bored and Youtube viewers. They're prone to getting big-headed off of their move-for-move, line-for-line mastery of the premium-priced, best-selling videos and effects from Penguin and Ellusionist that their parents can amazingly afford to keep buying. They master a trick a day. Forget the entertainment business, because they are in the magic business. They are devout followers of the black-deck-using XCM cult. To them, art is something you paint, characters are found on cartoon shows and David Blaine is garbage because he uses rising card decks and sponge balls. They use sponge balls. In private, because marketing is not magic. They are hating on this post. And I respect that, because I may still be one of them. To all the magicianal adolecents out there, keep up the passion.

A N T I N O
+ Cardinal of The House of Flying Cards + +
http://www.freewebs.com/hofc

PS. please excuse my hateration, I'm just venting my perspective. Can anyone agree or disagree with my theories and tell me why?
JackScratch
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Sing it Brother!! I can Hear ya!! Can I get an AMEN!?!?

You been hanging out at Ace21? The term we use is flourish monkeys. We do our best to teach them, but you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
RandyStewart
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Quote:
On 2006-04-25 19:35, Antino wrote:
Can anyone agree or disagree with my theories and tell me why?


No.

Sounds like all goes well and according to plan with one minor segment of the magic community.

They simply are that which I am not. I suppose the varied flavors of magic can make it all worthwhile and interesting. Or at the very least give some a place to hangout among the different types of magic.
karbonkid
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I think what will happen is that they will either drop in as great of numbers as they started, or, develop into something better than what they are.

Considering they master all these difficult things and show amoungst themselves in whatever form, it only takes one or two spectators to go 'And...?' for them to start rethinking their approach. I love running into these kids at magic meetings and burning them up with some classic effects.
Darkwing
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I think we all eventually all grow up.
Patrick Differ
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I'm with Randy. Other aspects and viewpoints on magic are just that...others. They, in no way, affect my model or my plans. As Jaz has said, "Magic is a big place."

Also, while you pose a "problem" you don't suggest any solution. These two ideas are better presented together....as in; "Here's a problem the way I see it. And here's my solution." Much more palatable.

You have a start, but no finish.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair
-can ne'er come down again.
JackScratch
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Oft the solution to a given problem begins with the aknowledgement of the problem itself. This is a pretty standard approach.
Patrick Differ
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After many years in upper management, I must aver that aknowledgement of a problem offers nothing towards developing or finding its solution. It simply states that there is a problem.

Identification of the truest nature(s) of the problem is the first step towards developing its solution.

So... what exactly is the problem?
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair
-can ne'er come down again.
JackScratch
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The problem is that the kids today are out of control. Why in my day we realy learned magic. And we liked it. We rehearsed, some times for 24 hours straight, and we didn't complain about it either. There isn't a problem, youth is wasted on the young and those of us it is no longer being wasted on are bitter about that. Same as it's always been.
Jonathan Townsend
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Hey, I was no fun when younger. And am enjoying my senilty these days. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Patrick Differ
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Quote:
The problem is that the kids today are out of control.


Agreed. As the internet has exploded within the last ten years, so has the Information Age. With the Information Age, all information, including magic secrets, has become the market's face.

I'm not against marketing most information. In fact, I'm quite for it. I must draw the line somewhere though... I'll start with nuclear technology and magic secrets. And I'll stick to magic secrets, lest I haphazardly encourage this topic to digress into a bowl of political mashed potatos.

With magic, information (read: the secret) is not the be-all-to-end-all. Those that have the experience already know this. However, this information is that which is most readily sold on an open market. Ergo, dreamers, wannabees, tyros, etc., have easy access to this information, without the benifit of the carefull consideration and efforts spent towards bringing magic past the secrets and into the minds of the all. The path for them is paved and smooth with oases all along the way so long as it is within easy reach of their or their sponser's pocketbook.

Alas, there is yet little market for the real secrets of magic... the real work. These are the techniques that deal with cause and effect, instead of just effect. Until such a time when the market shifts, the best that can be done is to either build a Hogwarts of our own, or continue on the path we've chosen, and let the better magician win.

Thanks for the smile, Jon. Very timely, indeed. Smile
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair
-can ne'er come down again.
Bill Palmer
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This is no different than the way it was 35 years ago. It just happens faster now. There have always been "move monkeys" in magic -- people who collected difficult sleights just because they could do them. But they seldom did anything magical with them.

I must confess to having gone through some of that, myself. I didn't want to spend a lot of time learning a closetful of card sleights. I decided to tackle the Downs Coin Star. I learned it from Bobby Bernard. It is not an easy sleight. It took me about six months to get it down. But I could nail it every time. Then I realized that it had no value to me as an entertainer. I still do it once in a while. It keeps my chops in shape.

And it does have some value to me, because it represents a goal that I achieved.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Antino
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I once was told a problem well-identified is a problem half-solved. saying what I said was just me putting a finger on what's conventional so that I may freak it out of the box in future.
JackScratch
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I think there isn't realy a problem here. What you have identified if a stage in a natural progression. The flourish monkeys are the young stage, though I must say there are several paths, so not everyone goes through that one, but many do. The flourish monkey stage will help to weed out the ones who shouldn't be magicians in the first place. Later many of the flourish monkeys will realise or learn from us, what we already know. There is a lot more to magic than "doing tricks".
Jonathan Townsend
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Somewhere down the road there's a stage where one listens to the audience and has to make some decisions. It's not juggling and it's not puzzles. And it's probably not so good to have people asking you for cures.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
revlovejoy
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Quote:
On 2006-04-26 09:34, Darkwing wrote:
I think we all eventually all grow up.


Perhaps I live in a different country than you, but if Nashville and Texas are still in the USA, I have to say, plenty of people here choose never to grow up. And I don't mean in the "always have magic in your heart like a child" way. I mean in the totslly adolescent, never take responsibility in life, never learn how to sustain adult relationships, way.

What my rant has to do with magic, I am not sure. But not everyone grows up. Not in the western world anyway.
karbonkid
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I think what he meant was 'mature as a performer' which there is a difference, I think. Then again, I'm putting words in their mouth. But, when I said it, that's what I meant.
Joe Russell
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I was very lucky that when I started off I was trained by the old school magicians like Karl Norman, and the rest of the forks Hotel era magicians. so I started off focusing on the presentation and not the difficult sleights.
My magic friends who we would consider the "Ellusionist Crowd" would get very angry that my DL, Top Change, and Classic Force was getting better reactions than their flavor of the month 100 dollar ellussionist sleight with hardly any presentation.
I find my self starting to learn the more difficult sleights now that my character, and the style I perform in has been established.
Who is Tattoo Joe?
cinemagician
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I personally have no problem with these young guys who are "sleight monkeys", for lack of a better term. There are worse things that they could be doing.

However, I do have a problem with some of the attitudes of some of these younger enthusiasts. I hear it in the words they speak, and the vibe they give off. Perhaps for them, magic is a contest, a sport for the unatheletic.

Worse yet, most do not have any grasp of the basic fundimentals. Because they are exposed to so many sources for learning magic- more so than ever before- and access to methods is extremely prevalent. They become "lost in the shuffle"

I have found if one of these young guys is really arrogant, just ask them to do something simple like, the old clock trick, or a french drop and most will not be able to do so.

They are walking before they learn to crawl.
...The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity...

William Butler Yeats
Julie
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As alluded to in the above posts, a mentoring approach (via Magic Clubs/Shops) AND exposure to various types of Magic and philosophy in Covention environments will go a long way towards guiding these "new Magicians" to becoming a credit to our Art and themselves.
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