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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Review Request: InTact by Jesse Feinberg (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ClouDsss
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Quote:
On 2006-05-05 17:09, Jessiah wrote:

...Ok Jon... A signed card was NEVER shown being removed from any tic tac box. So why do you say you don't think, when YOU KNOW? A signed card cant appear inside literally, its just an illusion. Intact teaches you how to do this.

.....And I made sure that you will have an accurate video to base this purchase on. So hold your horses my good man! It will be here soon. This is all a laugh... wow! -Jesse


So why show a Signed card presentation? You sure about the accurate new demo which I can base my purchase on?

Like I said, Use diamonds next time when pulling off such a stunt.


Quote:
On 2006-05-10 22:09, Jessiah wrote:
...The demo is totally accurate, everything is easy to do in a normal performance. I just want to make sure that people feel they understand what they are buying in the fairest way....



Accurate again? Maybe you would like to define the word accurate in your dictionary as I found mine to give the wrong type of description. Well, I guess if Cody dint notice the pip difference, I would have deemed it to be accurate. Nice try tho.

My sincere apologises to Jessiah that I sounded offensive here. This is due to the fact that I based my introduction and my friend too, on their purchase of this effect on the DEMO and the CLEAN handling seen.

I guess I will live pass this tho as time goes by. Just another misled product for me.
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
Jessiah
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Simply put, I didn't want to have to do the m fold a bunch of times when I was making this demo. As you remember, I was in a hurry to finish... So I used a dup signed card. I am not afraid to admit it. Intact doesn't require a duplicate card, but I just did the demo that way. This was the best take I had, and I used it. I was more concerned about not making any cuts in the video, and doing all of the routine right. I never even realized the discrepency! I hope you don't think this is supposed to trick you, it was just meant to make the filming easier for me. Very good eye Cody!

And an fyi, when I perform intact, I usually just force a card... so I guess I was also in that mind state. that's the thing... if I were trying to trick you with the fake signed card, then I would have noticed the discrepency. I only used this take because I didn't flash any of the gaffs in it... So I hope you all understand. Thanks -Jesse
tdowell
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I almost bought Pen thru Arm after seeing the video. Then learned it was misrepresented.

Now comes Intact and hear about potential issues with the video again. I wait.

Finally a new video supposedly guaranteed to be the real thing. The new video made me reconsider and I was just about to drop the cash because it was so clean and smooth. No pass, control, or m fold. Just looked awesome. I'm sold.

Now I see that once again we don't get a real demonstration. Wow.

Jesse, I promise I will never purchase one of your products ever bud...I simply can't trust your descriptions or video representations.

This is really poor form.

:hmmm:
ClouDsss
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On 2006-05-11 02:29, tdowell wrote:

Finally a new video supposedly guaranteed to be the real thing. The new video made me reconsider and I was just about to drop the cash because it was so clean and smooth. No pass, control, or m fold. Just looked awesome. I'm sold.

:hmmm:


I had the same thoughts too. No pass, control, or m fold. Just looked awesome.

ANd I wouldnt have even noticed it if Cody did not point it out to us.
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
afoi
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The demo video is very very misleading, and looks like a "lie" to me. You SHOULD NOT use a signed card AT ALL to perform. Like I record an effect, doing a color change with a SIGNED card. the card changed and the signature remain... its too magical until you realized there is a dup card involved. Too bad, you lost another customer...
- a f o i -
ClouDsss
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Quote:
On 2006-05-11 02:19, Jessiah wrote:
...And an fyi, when I perform intact, I usually just force a card... so I guess I was also in that mind state. that's the thing... if I were trying to trick you with the fake signed card, then I would have noticed the discrepency. I only used this take because I didn't flash any of the gaffs in it... So I hope you all understand. Thanks -Jesse


Just wondering,

If you were doing the Force a card version, then why did you even bothered to sign the card?

To me, that's very misleading. You are practically telling your customers that the card can be signed and appear in the box. Of course, you failed to mention that a dupe would be required and that the spec cant sign the card if that's the case.

To me, the main selling point of Intact is the card visually appearing in the tic tac box. So it would have been more honest if you did not sign the card. Who cares if a dupe is needed anot as the visual aspect is great, like bill burner.

But by signing, and with no slieghts involved at all, you are practically implying that a signed card (by the spec) can appear in the box. Which is MISLEADING.

If you look at page 5 of this thread, I actually praised your new demo and was Floored by it. Only to realised that its yet another misleading demo.

Could you kindly explain why you showed a demo of a signed card version when you mentioned that you cannot do a signed card to box in a previous thread? And that that is just an illusion?
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
CoinMan21
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Quote:
I only used this take because I didn't flash any of the gaffs in it...


If its so easy to flash, maybe its better passed off as a tv effect. Isn't this supposed to be an easy effect to perform?

If a demo is made and you didn't want to go through the trouble of doing m folds, you downright cheating potential customers. Not all magicians know that this effect requires a control or sleights. New magicians would think that your effect is as clean as the demo. That is in fact no true.

No doubt this effect has potential but your integrity or the lack of it has made you lose one more customer.
Jon Allen
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I didn't notice the discrepency but I thought the fake pass was blatant and the lack of folding action would lead everyone to know a dupe was used. This is what would confuse people - forcing a card while saying no force is necessary.

I agree with Cody with regards making demo videos. Some tricks ar easy to replicate with enough viewings. The method is hidden with cuts, fade outs and riggings. However, with Intact, there is no need to hide what you need to do with the card. So what if people see your pass, your MF or your dumping of the card. All this should be obvious anyway. What people will buy is the effect of the card in the box. They'll buy it for that; but now they won't because of the all the faking. Jesse, when it comes to future videos, just do the trick. People can't edit, fake or rig in real life; they want to see what *they* can do, not what you can do.

I do disagree with Pete & Cody when it comes to the climax being the card appearing in the box so the dumping out doesn't matter. Even if people assume the card in the box is theirs, a fumbled, rushed or unnatural taking out of the card will catch the eye of people and rasie suspicion. A clean and natural taking out of the card will simply emphasise the fact the card is theirs. What people see is *a* card in an impossible place.

They'll think:
"That can't be my card.... can it?"

Then think:
a) "He's taking it out.... OMG that IS my card!"
b) "He's taking it.... WTF was that???"

I prefer to go with a).
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Cameron Francis
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I know I keep playing devil's advocate, here, but did anyone think they were purchasing a clean control? Come on. When you buy an effect, most of the time the instructions give you a very basic control or simply say "control the card via your favorite method." We know what is required to do this effect. I didn't see Jesse do it in the demo, but then again, I wasn't looking for it. I just assumed he was doing a one handed MCF down by his side.

This reminds me of the David Forrest Trap-ease discussion. I purchased the effect and was really hoping his control would be in the instructions. It wasn't and I was a little disappointed. But I got over it because I bought the effect Trap-ease, not David's clean control.

I do agree with Jon that the dumping of the card looks a little rushed in the demo. However, I suspect you could make it look better using a slightly different method.
ClouDsss
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On 2006-05-11 10:54, cfrancis wrote:
I know I keep playing devil's advocate, here, but did anyone think they were purchasing a clean control? Come on. When you buy an effect, most of the time the instructions give you a very basic control or simply say "control the card via your favorite method." We know what is required to do this effect. I didn't see Jesse do it in the demo, but then again, I wasn't looking for it. I just assumed he was doing a one handed MCF down by his side.



But then again, at least you know what you are buying. In the demo, he did a signed card to tic tac box. Jessiah mentioned that this was not possible with Intact as the card being in the box is an illusion.

Oh, not to mention that the 'pass' kinda movement was there for?? he might as well just show that with no movement the card is in the tic tac box. Wouldnt that be even cleaner? Why bother to pretend he is doing a move? Maybe he knows that if the handling was too clean, its misleading so he had to add that. Now if he felt it that way too, why leave out other stuff?

Come'on, nobody expects a totally clean handling. But at least, we expect to see a realistic demo of something that we have to be doing when we purchase the effect. Honestly, not everyone performs in front of the camera only.

He might as well just open the tic tac box and pull out the card since he is at it. Later, he can always argue that "Hey! don expect a totally clean handling." Wouldnt that be fine with you too cfrancis?
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
Jessiah
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I thought that buy using a dup it would make the demo easier to make. that's ALL it was. I guess your right in saying that I could just use an unsigned card. I am probably going to change the demo again so that I can address this issue and the issue that me and Platt were talking about with the last section. That way people can't complain about some miracle control not being included. But that brings me to my next point.

I was trying to stay true to the effect, so I faked a signed card to make sure the demo was perfect. This was only to avoid doing the m-fold a bunch, call me lazy, don't call me a swindler! But why would anyone think that to do this effect with a signed card you wouldn't have to control, pass, m-fold, etc... In the instructions I explain many ways to fold a card... some super simple. So that process is IMMEDIATLY covered when you read the instructions... How else would a signed card be used?

Long story short... Im going to have to film this again with a regular unsigned card... That makes sense! I will put text in the video explaining that this effect CAN be done with a signed card. That will make this right. -Jesse
jimesw
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Maybe do it using the intercessor?
fib
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I'm reading these posts and really can't believe what a bunch of babies some of you guys are. Jesse, you shouldn't have to be so defensive. You won't get respect if you respond to every comment -- though some of the comments seem legitimate in their criticism. The thing that bugs me the most is that, due to the Jaxon principle and one or two other age-old moves, you can show the card appearing and take that card out, open it up and show the signature. Isn't that what everybody wants? Or is the question: is that what everybody wants to pay for?
fib
ClouDsss
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Thanks for understanding Jessiah.

Like I and many others have mentioned, the true beauty of Intact is the visual appearance of the card inside the box. That alone would render you sales. No need to use a signed card and hence give the wrong impression.

I think the main thing when people view a demo, they believe that that is the actual effect they are getting, meaning the required actions, etc. Whatever changes can of course like you mentioned, be added in the future to make it better.

And honestly, when someone sees a totally clean demo, magicians espescially, they do get floored as those are the kind of effects which the majority of us are trying to achieve. To perform 'real' magic with no unnecessary movements. Hence, this outburst with the totally clean handling when in actual it is not.

Cheers and peace out.
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
teevtee
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>>> But why would anyone think that to do this effect with a signed card you wouldn't have to control, pass, m-fold, etc...<<<<

BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT YOU SHOWED THEM!!!!

Remember, not EVERYONE watching the demo is an experienced magician. Hank Lees site is VERY well known to hobbyists and even beginners. They visit, they see a "hot" new item that says it is very easy to perform. They watch the demo and it looks great... they buy it. Then they realizie that they need to to all these moves, controls, folds etc. These will be WAY beyond what they can do and certainly to "easy to perform". So those peopel were just misled to buy something. That is why THEY would not assume you needed to do a pass etc.

But what about experienced magicians... surley THEY would KNOW thesemoves were required...right?

Well yes and no. You see magicians are a gullable bunch when it comes to effects. We are all searching for the next great thing, that white whale which probably is not actually out there but you never know. So They watch this demo and they read this thread and they know Jesse's past experience with deceptive videos. Because of this Jesse swears up and down that what you see in the video is what you get. MAN! They think, this must be something REALLY new!!!! It looks so clean, there does not seem to be any pass, or one so sublte that it fools people even looking for it. Now sure, deep down these magicians may know that it looks too good to be true, but then there is that video and again Jesse says you get what you see.

So THEY buy it and again they are misled and disapointed.... the video AGAIN shows something that simply cannot really be done as presented in the video. And yet a few people will STILL defend this as an OK busniness practice.

Jesse so far is 0 for 3 on his demo videos here. Pen Thru Arm, InTact video #1, InTact video #2, each one shows things that simply are not possible with the provided gaffs.

For the life of me I don't understand why you are having such issues with this demo stuff Jesse. It has been said many time, just film yourself doing the *** trick 100% EXACTLY the way it is really done. If you are not good at the M-Fold or what have you then get someone else to perform it. If you don't like that presentation then show it with a forced card and ONLY a forced card. The REAL trick here is that you force a card, show it visually appear in the box, and then NATURALLY and honestly remove it. The signed card stuff is much weaker. The dump out looks rushed, odd and forced and it is not "easy to perform" as the copy reads. Stop trying to do too much and be all things to all people and you will be much better off.
Jessiah
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Thank you for your kind words ClouDsss. I hear you guys loud and clear. Im sorry for any issues, but my intentions are to make the best demos I can. I will make the changes... I respond to some of these comments because they are valid. Hearing your concerns for the demo will ultimitely help me in the future. So I appreciate the attention to details some of you offer. Thanks for that!
truthteller
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The bigger problem is we have a created the desire - the need - for people to want to become "someone" in the magic world. Whether it is for financial gain, or personal reward, at no time have more people been clamoring to make a name of themselves among magicians for magicians. Rather than take the traditional path of spending years building a career supported by original and well-thought-out material, we have people rushing ideas to market and selling anything they can get their hands on. As a friend of mine pointed out in his marketing book, simply taking out enough ad space will lead to minor celebrity status.

Now, if these ideas were always rock solid, there would be little problem. But so many of these ideas should never be put out. I have seen one new product that is a re-release of an idea originally sold in 1919. I have seen books filled with ideas taken from other performers and offered with minor variations. And, I have seen products misrepresented - deceptive videos and even lies - like books with copyright dates backdated in order to falsely establish the paternity of ideas.

Now, I cannot speak for or against Jessie, but I feel these comments apply to the magic community at large. Again, they are not accusing Jessie, but are observations based on patterns of behavior exhibited throughout.

I cannot help but feel that if you need to prop up your product with video editing or lies, then that should be your wake up call that perhaps you know your product is not up to snuff. If you are afraid to do due diligence and find out if your idea might be 100 years old, then you probably know that it is not revolutionary. And if you find yourself saying, 'I did not know that was in print' (especially in magazines you subscribe to) then you probably spend more time studying, practicing, and performing and less time marketing.

Just an observation on the state of the art.
katty
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Quote:
On 2006-05-11 02:29, tdowell wrote:
I almost bought Pen thru Arm after seeing the video. Then learned it was misrepresented.

Now comes Intact and hear about potential issues with the video again. I wait.

Finally a new video supposedly guaranteed to be the real thing. The new video made me reconsider and I was just about to drop the cash because it was so clean and smooth. No pass, control, or m fold. Just looked awesome. I'm sold.

Now I see that once again we don't get a real demonstration. Wow.

Jesse, I promise I will never purchase one of your products ever bud...I simply can't trust your descriptions or video representations.

This is really poor form.

:hmmm:



Just received Intact I found it need many sleight to make it look good as on the new video demo. I still think his new video is use to improve his sale not purely refect what the trick is.

For me I am disappointed...Just like tdowell I promise myself I will never purchase any of Jesse's product again.
mgshn
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A few hundred messages ago somebody asked for a review; I though I would actually post one. It's kind of like the Mystery Box but easier to carry and a lot more familiar looking. The handling is a bit more difficult than the Mystery Box (you need average card skills), and the effect about the same. (A card is signed and lost. Then a card appears in an impossible location. The card is subsequently shown to be the signed card.) The reset, like Jesse mentioned (to me) two or three pages ago is almost immediate. You need to keep the prop out of the spectator's hands but the Tic Tacs are edible (I hope).

BTW, Kudos to Jesse for his measured responses and acceptance of criticism. It's all to understandable that someone might take advantage of the shortcuts presented by a video demo. "Every pass is perfect..."
Jaxon
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First let me say that I have not read every single post in this 7 page discussion but I browsed around and got the idea of the kinds of things being discussed. Let me take a moment to address a few of them. I should also mentioned that I don't yet own this trick.

First of all there's the issue of if this was a copy of my Bill Burner Clear. I will say that it was published in my JaxonMagic Note section of my old site a little over 3 years ago. I didn't publish it as an E-book until about a year ago. Now, I have no idea if Jessiah knew about my trick before making this or not. To be honest I really don't care. If he came up with his independently then I guess the old saying of great minds think alike is true. Smile If my Bill Burner Clear inspired Intact then I'm very flattered. Either way I'm not upset about it and on that matter I'm the only one who has any reason to complain (and I'm not). Since no one has mentioned that my trick was credited as inspiration I'm guessing it was an independent creation using the same principle. Maybe I'm naive but I've had no reason yet not to trust Jessiah.

Now for the issue of the old Demo video. I saw the old one and I've seen the new one and my opinion is that in the eye of the spectators who see it performed there is no difference. I've commented so many times about how some magicians tend to confuse the method with the effect. The old demo showed that the card comes out of the box. Guess what the new demo shows...... The card coming out of the box.

The same goes for my Perpetuity Tubes. The bill doesn't really come out of the tube but not one of my spectators have ever questioned that. IN fact look at my third post on that above link. I mentioned the idea of doing it with a tic tac box there but judging by the date Jessiah beat me to it. Smile

The point is. The effect happens the moment the object appears inside. The pulling out and showing it is only proof it's the same. I'm sure when you perform this it's just like my Perpetuity tubes. The moment the magic happens in the tube is the moment they react to. IF you perform either of them and you don't agree that this is the moment. Then here's what I suggest you do. The moment the bill or card appears inside. Don't be to quick to pull it out. Pause a moment and when they start to react then pull it out. You'll see how powerful taht pause will be.

Anyway, keep creating Jessiah.

Ron Jaxon
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After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
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