Chosse,

touche

So you would like to get us in a poker game? That would be very interesting. I remember you stating that you worked with a poker mob in the 70's for a few years. Did you move in the games or were you end getter.

Duh, I got worked up because I said that “An Acknowledgement Would Have Been Nice."


Okay then where is yours? Point me to a video/DVD that displays one and its use. Out of all the best cheats in the country that I've met none neither had nor ever seen this hold out so where do you gamble at that every one has one and it's hardly unique?

Why I'm Getting Heated

Now this is what gets me pset...you see two holdouts with safety pins attached to it and you say that it's a sleeve hold out? I see that you know nothing about dice manipulation. These items when used were attached under your shirt or jacket and this is how the dice were brought into and out of play. I don't have Steve's book so I can't remember what's on page 263 but I saw no dice hold out that he had that goes up the sleeve EXCEPT for the other piece of apparatus that I gave him of which HE DID NOT EXPOSE in his book even though he might have mentioned it after seeing me do my dice switch at his home.

So let me get this straight what you're telling me is that a millionaire who has money at his disposal who wants one couldn't buy one and he had everything other cheating device imaginable? Either he knew nothing about it or he didn't know where to purchase one at like myself this is why I made one.

What is the problem here?

1. I looked in the Al Lampkin book and saw a 2 prong dice hold out device that no one I knew had so I made a few.

2. Being that Steve had a collection of gaffed dice hold-outs in his show case and being that he gave me items and let me film him, I in turn gave him items in return and one of them was the two prong brass colored dice hold out with the safety pin attached to it.

3. Why I Got Worked Up? Because you should stop trying to read more into something then is actually there. You’re making a mountain out of a molehill.


How do you know this to be true…in our world you’re considered a sucker and since you’re not God and you definitely can’t read minds how do you know this…from what you heard? I’m a straight up kind of guy too but I don’t tell you every I know about everything and I can prove everything I say and some of you who have met me know this to be true because I showed them I wasn’t lying.

You’re Living in a La La World

Don't think that we (us hustlers) are all that nice because we smile in your face as you invite us over to your home because we're not. Don’t ya'll see my ruthlessness periodically burst out through my writings at you and I'm trying my hardest to be a Christian. If I’m acting like this towards you trying to be a Christian imagine what you’re up against with those who care nothing about you and don’t even believe in God.

The Con Game Is Strong

You magicians feel like we are your friends because we told you stuff that you never knew before; wrong…we’re not and if you don’t believe me consult your bible Gen. 3 and see what happened to Eve when she was told stuff that she never knew before. Did it help her or did it hurt her? All we’re doing is just throwing you some bait to reel your information in just like the Devil did to Eve.

Doc I don’t understand? Money is our God and anything that you or a cheat can teach us that will better us in order for us to get that money we will do and then show you obsolete stuff or nothing at all in return for your knowledge while saying within ourselves he’s just another sucker telling all he knows.

So now that you know this on that note was Steve really being straightforward with you or did you just get conned out of info.? Another question, if I show you 100 moves that won’t get the money and explain them logically to you was I straight forward with you or not? You do the math.

Note: I’m also not saying that Steve is not truly many of your friends because neither am I God and can read his mind I’m just speaking in general the mind of a hustler. My Christian side is telling you about our dark side that you don’t see since you’re naïve and gullible to a lot of things.

Being Gullible

There’s an author who frequents this forum who did a book on Martin Nash’s gambling stuff and after the book didn’t do as well as he liked, he learned that the only reason it didn’t is because those moves that Martin Nash did would never fly in a real game. This gentleman is slowly learning through experience what I had to learn through experience and this is why I’m publicly teaching (guiding) ya’ll through those pitfalls of con and hustling.

What Would Walter Scott Say To This?



You see Walter here got caught in a lie.



Why did Scott rarely mention his dice skills? A hustler always got to have an ace in the hole that you know nothing about.



Why did Kennedy give Vernon a hard time? He psychologically played (Conned) Vernon into showing him everything he knew regarding gambling until he found something that he could use so at that point as we say “fare exchange is not a robbery.” To hell with them magic tricks you show me something I can use now I show you something you can use.

The Walter Scott of Today

Steve today is like the Walter Scott of Yesterday. As legendary gamblers and famous magicians sought out Walter Scott to see and to learn likewise the famous magicians and legendary gamblers of today seek out Steve to learn and by conversation alone he knows who’s real and who’s not and for those who are real they show their appreciation by showing their favorite/best moves and by giving gifts and Steve does the same in return.
Now for you magicians who visit and guys who want to expose stuff the story is not the same for you (read between the lines). Now while I’m thinking about it…

A Note To Paul Wilson

In the gambling world it is said that you expose, talk or show too much of which I really don’t understand what they mean by this, I guess I do too, if this is true slow down you have more to lose than I. How is it that people can put out books and DVD’s exposing gambling stuff and it’s all right but when we talk (especially me) or do the same thing it not all right? Isn’t that being two-faced?

Paul I don’t care what people say about me because I write above the heads of the readers. The only ones who understand what I’m actually saying at times are the ones that are really getting upset only because they know too much. If you didn’t know the things that you know you would read right passed it without a thought but since you’ve read between lines now you say “oooh I’m gonna tell on you” like a little sissy.

99.9 % of the readers don’t even know what I’m talking about so why are ya’ll getting your briefs in a bundle over nothing? A fine example of this is the new 911 DVD; when everything was happening no one paid attention to a lot of things that was going on but now those who did pay attention to details are now exposing what they think really went on and it is very convincing to me; likewise when I write. Check out that DVD when you get the time.

Back to Straight Up Kind of Guy

Let’s read what is said about Walter Scott “Eddie McGuire had describe him as a ‘fluent talker, personality plus, shrewd, clever and with an abundance of brains.’ Put to misuse those traits became the perfect ammunition for the conman that Scott argued EVERY CHEAT MUST BE. It’s 10 percent manipulation and 90 per cent con. To be a good card man you have to be a confidence man to a certain degree. So on this note alone is Steve really a straight up guy or a confidence man…we’ll never know will we.

Me Now I’m A Confidence Man

Am I a straight up guy or a confidence man? I’m both, why because I have to be doing what I do because EVERY CHEAT MUST BE. So Doc what are you saying? I’m saying that you readers are getting information from my Christian side enlightening you on the dark side of our inner being. Why is it that even though I’m snatching mask off you can’t see that we all have the cunning traits of the Devil and you’re admiring us for it.

But Doc? As a Christian I’ve been commanded by my Lord to teach so you have no excuse if you don’t make into heaven. Who can better teach and talk to cheaters than a cheat? God directed me in this path for some reason unbeknown to me to teach ya’ll and even though I’m backsliding at the moment this is my job and this is why I previously wrote that my friends and student’s lives are more important to me than anything in this world especially more than being with the big boys.

As a cheat or a business man it’s always better to have an ace in the hole or a back up plan just in case everything falls through and Jesus is my ace in the hole or backup plan even though I’m a knuckle-headed son (not doing what I suppose to be doing). For those of you who have something to say about this as Steve Harvey said…Don’t Judge Me Because He Ain’t Through With Me Yet.

So now that you know how a hustler really is, are you sure from the bottom of your heart that he was straight up with you; a sucker (victim, someone who’s sleep to what’s really happening?) Do you think that from the bottom of your heart that he wrote everything that he knew in that Casino Protection Book to protect casinos? Well if you do… “We Welcome You To Munchkin Land.”

The Hustler's Code

Code # 1
To keep a sleeper (sucker/casinos) sleep. If you think that the casinos are not getting robbed all the time you are sadly mistaken. Why do you think that they have surveillance cameras? They give their footage to people such as Sal to examine because they can’t figure out what’s going on. Why would I give my footage to someone else if I know what’s going on? Are you reading between the lines?

They brain wash the public and cheats by showing off all them cameras to viewers that they have everything under control when they don’t. They can’t tell the public that occasional cheats are robbing them because every cheat in the world would try to come there so that’s a no, no.

In our world everybody got to eat…that means while we’re (the casino) is robbing the public (legally) you can rob us too (but don’t get caught). Didn’t Mr. Dowser write in a post to me “Doc that dice switch would’ve gotten by my box men?” What is that telling you? It’s telling me that they could still be robbed. Well then Doc? Don’t even think about it they don’t have to worry about me because I’m too scared to; I look at too many movies and I’m not fond of deserts.

Code # 2
I'm not allowed to show any hustler's stuff without permission and neither is that hustler allowed to show mine. This is the code of real hustlers and this is why we (the elite) can't let the real stuff out the bag with you magicians because you have nothing to lose but everything to gain trying to get fame or status when it is our goal to get the money.

Code # 3
If you show my stuff, I have the right to show yours. This here code is what keeps our secrets a secret amongst ourselves; and the stuff that we do show most likely (9 out of 10 times) is out dated and we no longer use it like I previously stated in my above post...I don't work with inferior items.

It is my belief that the REAL MAGICIAN'S like Dai Vernon, Ed Marlo etc. back in the day use to honor this code of silence and that's when magicians were magicians. You had to receive a certain magician status in order to learn the advanced techniques of the trade: Mr. Glenn Bishop can testify to this being that his father is one of the legends of that era.

Code # 4
Being that there is a hustler's code of silence this might be the reason why they did not mention my name because I'm a still active hustler and they didn't want any harm coming to me (their friend) but as I said before the Devil always bring evil thoughts to an idle mind even though innocent as it may sound lurks envy in the heart of man etc. and maybe this is what happened in my case and why I wrote "An Acknowledgement Would Have Been Nice." Now the Devil is working through you trying to get us into a word fight over an acknowledgement that by right shouldn't have been said maybe to save my life.

Note: No one has all the answers especially me being that I was a magician first so there is always room to learn if you're willing to listen and I listen very well.

Code # 5 No matter how mad and upset we get with each other we will always team up regardless to beat a sucker like you, split your money (in this case knowledge) and then get back to being mad with one another. So on that note don't get into something that you know nothing about thinking that we're like you magicians because we do this all the time with each other and then still work together because this is business. I don't have to like you and you don't have to like me, money is our goal and after we get it we go our own separate ways until the next victim steps up to the mike and back together again.

For those of you here magicians or anyone else who doesn’t want to hear/read this then why are you reading my post? If you want stuff that’ll tickle your ears then hustling or cheating at Dice Or Cards (D.O.C.) is not for you. This is how we trick, maneuver and manipulate to get what we want so we can live the lavish life style that we are accustomed to…so on that note grow up.



I do don’t I? Some taught me what they knew and others sought me out to see if I was the real deal.

Respectfully,

The Doctor

Doesn't really matter, does it? You got my point...

Best, PSC

If we could we would have a great time splitting down their money. You know I was up in your neck of the woods the week before last looking for you but couldn't get intouch with you so I called Hank Lee's Magic shop looking for your number and the guys told me and my friends to come up there. We did and boy oh boy did they treat us very nice, it was an honor.

You know I had to entertain them of which I think they very much enjoyed. The older gentleman there is very good along with the other guy tall slim guy that fooled me with the 4 ace deck shuffle routine that he says he invented which to me on a scale of 1 to 10 is a 10. I forgot your name but that move should definitely be in the gambling books; I'm proud of you for that. Guess what he also taught it to me and I taught him about stripper work. You know why I did because "fair exchange of information is not a robbery."

I'm really gonna need your number because I will be going back up there to win me some more money real soon. I have an 800 number but I couldn't reach you.

Your Friend and Student

Doc

Who is this doc??

Maybe I need one of your famous Reading Comprehension 101 classes, but when I read this, it sounded to me like one of the acknowledgements you are demanding is for a device you saw a picture of in the Al Lampkin book and duplicated. Doesn't that make him the originator and not you? And does anyone know if this device is in any other books that came out before this book?
Did you also invent the punch? I believe in giving credit where it's due, so I would like to find out where it's due first.

You really think a comment like that is respectful?

Earlier, Edh said Doc has contributed to this forum for some time. He has given us magi's something to work with. but frankly, I have never seen that. I haven't seen you be helpful to others. I have, in fact, seen you tell a great deal of stories about yourself...which isn't particularly helpful to others.

If you got messed over in this situation...that isn't fair. But just because you handle a deck better than most doesn't give you the right to be downright rude to others. Nobody in this thread is responsible for you not getting credit for something.

And as noted earlier...why are you airing this here instead of talking to the people you should be angry with?

Respectfully

[quote]On 2006-05-09 01:42, mook wrote:


It sounded to me like one of the acknowledgement you are demanding is for a device you saw a picture of in the Al Lampkin book and duplicated. Doesn't that make him the originator and not you? And does anyone know if this device is in any other books that came out before this book?

It sounded to me like one of the acknowledgement you are demanding is for a device you saw a picture of in the Al Lampkin book and duplicated.

Doesn't that make him the originator and not you? And does anyone know if this device is in any other books that came out before this book?
[quote]
What does these two questions have to do with acknowledging something that someone gave to you? You know I really feel sorry for the people that you be around if you knit-pick like this all the time. So what you’re saying is this when you give your wife or girlfriend a gift you’re telling me that you explain to her that you didn’t invent that gift while explaining to her the origin of every gift you gave? And when she talks about the gift that you gave to her would you want her to say or acknowledge that “oh my man picked this gift up somewhere and presented it to me but the originator of the gift is the real giver and the one that really loves me.” So is this what you’re actually telling me?

I will now answer your question



No it doesn’t make him, Frank Garcia, the K.C. Card Co. nor I the originator but I am the originator of mine which is called The Eagle Claw Hold-Out. Put this info into your gambling archives of inventions made by a black man.



Yes this device is shown in Frank Garcia’s “How to Detect Crooked Gambling” book page 234 and it’s also mentioned in the 1959 K.C. Card Co. Blue book between pages 34 and 35 why? Extra pages were added to the book to advertise different items. This is device is called “Dice Switch.”



Reading Comprehension 101 is definitely necessary




Good for you and since you’re in a credit giving mood take this here Dunce Cap and put it on until you find out who invented the punch and get back to us on it because I definitely wrote that I didn’t invent it and really don’t care who did because it was invented and used before I was born.

D.O.C.

Sorry, but Doc has helped folks out a good deal here. He has provided people with notes, tips, ideas on certain moves when he felt it was warranted. These things were a great help. I will say that with many of the posts and stories that you refer to, if you read between the lines, you'll find some good pieces of information.

Oh cool. I thought they deleted this thread. Glad to see it was just moved.

Doc, I'm pretty sure that there is nothing that I could do to advance your dice skills. From what I've heard of your dice switches etc your skills are formidible. But thanks for the mention anyway.

I agree with T-Jo, Doc has given much help. Just read his posts, there are nuggets of gold contained within.

Vandy

Mr. O'Malley

Thanks for the shout out and the many times that you came to help me, I very much appreciate it.

It's an honor being your friend.

May God Bless You and Your Family

Respectfully

Doc

Vandy, moved and edited.

I share the sentiments that Vandy, T O'malley, and a few others here feel about Doc. Just because he doesn't outright explain how to do something, doesn't mean he's not giving you valuable input.

if you're not picking anything up from his posts, it's probably because this is not what you do and it is difficult to try and pick up what he's saying between the lines.

I for one have sat here and read some of Docs posts, smiling because it seems that I have gone through one or two of those experiences, he shares.

Halcon

I thought that this thread was deleted too because I had something to write for the other poster.

Vandy you have helped my dice skills and I thank you for it. How did I help your dice skills Doc? Because people have seen my dice switch they feel that's all I can do but that's not true at all. Switching dice is only one aspect of cheating at dice. What about controlled dice shots? Vandy I can control fair dice very well but I'm a little out of practice at the moment. If I lose at dice it's only because the victim was lucky and broke me before I was able to get my shot off.

Another area of cheating a dice is proposition bets and percentage play of which the casino does and win the the odds that they have over the player that's why they want their dice perfectly square because they know that a knowledgeable player will take an advantage of defective dice.

You also have to know when cheating dice are down already or if the guy is an expert shooter and when to bet with the shooter. Any edge is an edge and when you see cheating is going on you don't tell you bet with him etc. Why? Because your goal is to win money right? So why are you trying to wake up the dead (sleepers who are giving their money away freely)?

This is why I also posted the remainding dice books because controlled dice shots and percentage books work and if you don't believe me just consult your K.C. Card Co. Blue Book and see if those percentage books are in the catalog.

Vandy again thanks as I said previously

Your Friend

Doc

Mr. Corey thanks for writing and posting your findings...they will be of some help due to the fact that I don't have the book. My question to you is why is it that ya’ll keep adding words to my quote. By changing my text makes you bearing false witnessing.



I trashed no one, they started it and I’m defending myself. I made a post of my thoughts out loud. Two guys tell me that my thoughts were wrong and I defended my right to think what I want to think. I think therefore I am.

It seems that the only way you would understand what was going on is if you just got robbed by two guys and you caught them and beat them up and now they’re screaming that you took advantage of them and the only thing that you really did is defend your belongings and now because everyone else who doesn’t know what was going on now comes to defend the beat up victims.



My friends are not whiners they are men and being that they are hustlers you should respect them as such. Why? Because to do what they do they have become what you would call street people dealing with all kinds of scum of the earth and their personality is not like that of a nice magician.

9 out of 10 times they will do what they have to do to leave with the money they’ve won if you get what I’m saying so they are not to be taken lightly. I’m also not saying that you’re not about your business but I know that they are.

These whiners as you say are truthful gentlemen but when p**ssed off turn into the Hulk and the dark side comes out. The only reason that they’re taking up for me is that I have footage of everything and people that I’ve met therefore conversations exist on these footages and when they hear what was said and see what they see they know for a fact that I wasn’t lying. So on that note these guys are definitely not butt kissers they were only stating the facts as they saw it and if you meet me and see what they saw you would have a very different opinion of me too.

Why I filmed?

I read what happened to Walter Scott and I just didn’t want the same thing to happen to me that’s why I only filmed stuff to learn from and to prove to others as evidence, if that came up, that the inventions and ideas were mine and that I taught it to whomever claims that my move was theirs



You’re nothing but an instigator and a manipulator with the devil working right through you. Who said that I was angry? I sure didn’t so what hat did you pull this word from? My exact words are written and Acknowledgement is the word I clearly stated which means 1. an expression of thanks or appreciation for something. 2. official or public recognition of the help somebody has given or the work somebody has done.

I did not write I’m angry at Steve for not giving me an Acknowledgement. This is what you’re trying to manipulate my sentence into saying when it’s not and that’s why you don’t understand what I’m talking about.



You’re misquoting me again…I said “An Acknowledgement Would Have Been Nice.” Why would I want someone to retract expensive books just to satisfy me? That’s selfishness but if you would like to solve this problem for us just purchase all of Steve Forte’s books and take the rest of your money that you make for the rest of your life and republish them again for him putting in my irrelevant acknowledgment and then we can all live happily ever after.

To My Readers

I said it before and I’ll say it again “An Acknowledgement Would Have Been Nice.”

My Words

All I'm saying is that one of the two dice clips that you see on page 259 I made from looking at a clear pic in Al Lampkin's book and made a few. After having too many to use I gave one of them to Steve Forte and when he placed it in his book and I read what he had to say all I said to myself is "An Acknowledgment from him would have been nice."

The Dictionary Meaning

Acknowledgment: 1. an expression of thanks or appreciation for something. 2. official or public recognition of the help somebody has given or the work somebody has done.

Would: 1. used to express the sense or “will” in reported speech or when referring to an event that has not happened yet. 2. used in making polite requests of offers.

Been: 1 past participle of be

Nice: 1 pleasant or enjoyable 2. kind, or showing courtesy, friendliness, or consideration. 3. respectable, or of an acceptable social or moral standard.

My Statement Using Dictionary Words.

The bottom line is this…

Steve should have shown but didn’t “an expression of thanks or appreciation for something” (that I gave him and given me a) “public recognition of the help (I) given for the work (that I did).” (Being that) “my polite request or reported speech…or event…has not happened yet’ (I will wait). (I was only thinking out loud of how) “pleasant or enjoyable” (it would have been being ) “shown” (a little) “courtesy” (for) “friendliness” (on my part for my) “consideration” (in giving him that item). It’s just “an acceptable social or moral standard” (where I come from).

To The Next Person That Writes To Me

If you are not writing to me about why Sal or Steve should have given me an acknowledgement (I Repeat The Word Acknowledgement see the above meaning) than don’t expect an answer from me because you’re not addressing my post you’re adding your own words to it, which is wrong.

Respectfully

Doc

You know you're nothing but a suck up and should be ashamed of yourself; you need to be a man. Why? You say that I already tipped whatever to every magician and magic shop staff list on the continental US already? Let's say that I agree with you...now let me tell you why you're a suck up and I'm not.

I got kicked out of forums because I don't hold back the truth as I see it. Example on Igor's site when they were talking about Darwin etc. I defended Darwin's move against Igor's meaning why did the members criticize the moves that Darwin didn't do excellent compared to the moves that Igor didn't do excellent. If you still don't understand what I mean, I mean why judge one with a fine tooth comb and not the other; I judged Igor's and got banned because I judged fairly. I called them members suck ups too because they were butt kissing (not talking about) Igor because they dared not to talk about Igor's moves.

Now for your issue, you say I talk or tell good depending on your level I will agree with you for argument sake, but since you're bashing me on telling stuff why are you not speaking out against Steve Forte's book, Sal Piacente's/Dave Malek's DVD's exposing cheating moves to casinos around the world and the continental US? Why just me? I know why because your a butt kisser and a suck up and don't want to say anything against them for fear of everybody at this site jumping on your narrow a-- behind. When you judge you need to judge everyone the same or not judge at all.

I await your reply.

Doc Holiday

Doc I still don't know what the heck you're talking about.

Thanks for finally clearing up what it is that's got you worked up. What you actually wrote on 4 May was:



Can you see how people had no idea what it was you were talking about? You didn't provide a page number the first time around. I kept asking...

As to whether Forte should have acknowledged you for your build of a gaff that has been around for more than half a century (if not longer) - you'll see that he does not credit hustlers for any of the other gaffs he shows (I mean, if you buy the book). This is because most hustlers are not seeking fame but trying to GTFM. You have to decide what it is that you want.

Anyway, thanks for clearing up what it is you were hot about (finally). As to all of your anger at me, I believe the Lord Jesus Christ Our Saviour will forgive you.

J.Corey

Doc:
Steve Forte is not a Walter Scott. My reasoning is that, back in the day, nobody knew what Walter Scott looked like, or how his hands moved, or anything like that. In contrast, Forte has made a number of appearances in seminars, videos etc. People in my country, for instance, are still asleep, because they've never heard of him. But, generally, it isn't the same situation.

I think giving advice to others, no matter how well, is not the same as going out and getting done with it yourself. Of course, this is all just geeky logic.

With undying passion for cards and people who treat them well,
Andrei

I pray that he do and do me a favor while you're praying for you your family and friends. Please speak to our Lord about my anger and street like personality and ask Him to help me control it better and to forgive me and pray that I make it into heaven so we all can hang out together and talk mess for all eternity.

Signed

Your Knuckle-headed Brother in the Lord

Doc

Mr. Z I'm sorry but I can't explain it any clearer. May the Lord bless you and your family.

Your Friend

Doc