I'm just new, a lurker and everything, but I like lurking when the Doc speaks. Lots to learn.

I think the situation is like this: If you learned about and got a certain gaff from someone else, is it cool for you to turn around and tell others about the device and show it to them without saying who showed it to you? Regardless of who originally thought of it, someone was nice enough to pass on the knowledge and even to make the device and give it to you. It's significant because that type of knowledge isn't just passed aroung freely. It's not a crime not to mention who showed you, but, you know, "An acknowledgment would have been nice".

Do I get a cookie?

No cookie here. I can see that an "acknowledgement would have been nice," but I suppose by starting this thread, Doc already gave himself the acknowledgement he was seeking.

However, I have to agree with Irishguy and others who say that this forum is not the place to air a beef he has with two people he says that he knows. Why not call them directly and air your grief? Only you guys know exactly what happened and who deserves the accolades.

I also don't appreciate being talked down to. Doc, you and your rediculous "READING COMPREHENSION 101" need to look in the mirror. You long rants don't clear up anything I addressed, they only show your state of mind.

I'll pray that you gain some patience and understanding of other people. You really need help.

As the sun is to a vampire so recognition is to a cheat.

Tommy, could not have said it any better. Right on man!

Rannie

Recognition from a mark is bad. Recognition for work within the fraternity is not bad.

Hey, cheats are people too. And some like to be recognized for their achievements. At least by others that share the same intrests. Magicians don't want a spectator to be aware of moves or recognize an individual move, but they sure get testy when thier moves aren't credited in magic publications etc.

Vandy

I have to wonder why Doc is telling the worlds leading casino security expert anything at all. What about the fraternity who might want to use the move to cheat? Steve Forte is the arch enemy of the fraternity.

Tommy, not true at all.

lets assume for one second that it is. Just because Steve tipped the method employed, doesn't mean you'll get caught. the bottom deal, for example, almost everyone knows it's possible, yet we all get away with it, time after time. why? Because, knowing the move is a lot different from knowing when to move. Add to that, some people have polished it so well, even if you were burning someones hands you would still get away with it.

there are cheats who have never been caught, because they understand the psychology, nuances, rhythm and timing, amongst other things. they understand human behavior and exploit it wherever possible.

I've seen people with beautiful moves, but their rhythm was not in sync with their natural body movement. Sure, I may not have seen what happened, but, because of the unusual rhythm, I understood something did.

Halcon

With respect I disagree. The whole idea of the Steve Forte's book is to warn and forearm casinos about cheating so they can either prevent cheating or catch cheats. It is as simple as that.
His tapes are intended to do the same for private games.
It seems wacky to me that Doc wants recognition in such a book. Do you expect the cheats to say thanks Doc for telling the enemy that secret move? Forte has the respect of all cheats but lets not forget whos side he is on. I would not tell Forte the time if he asked.

CPG page 259.


I want to finish reading this whole thread, but I'll guarantee I'll be on Doc's side.

I agree



No, I don't, but many don't consider Steve the enemy, regardless of his position as a security speacialist, there are reasons for this.



I wouldn't worry about who's side he's on, neither would most cheats who know the man.

Halcon
[/quote]

Forte Rocks!

Try telling it them who are breaking rocks.

Hey Tommy thanks for writing. Now you know we're just voicing our opinions here and we are entitled to our opinions.

I have to differ with you on this only because I've met the man and have seen a lot of things that he knows and believe me his knowledge is like Whoa....I can't even explain it. Yes he's my mentor but I'm throwing that out the window for the moment and talking facts here. Tommy Steve can talk on hundreds of subjects and give you nothing for example the punch in Gazzo's books. Did I not write that this was not his specialty and that he wrote a lot and didn't tell you anything. These are almost my words exactly to what I wrote in a previous post.

The Casino Protection Book is a great book but believe me Steve did not let out the secrets and have honored the gambler's code to the fullest and made me honor that code as well. Steve to me is a very good judge of character because he would have NEVER let me film him if he thought in his heart that I wouldn't honor the code of silence.

Doc but you're tell everything...No I don't. Yes you do...No I don't. If I do, can you tell me any of the moves that Steve taught me that's on my video? No. 4 hours of never before seen footage still have never been seen as of yet and none of these moves are on Sal's DVD nor in Steve's book. Why? Because they can keep a secret.

Don't you think that they have footage of me teaching my cold deck moves to them? Yes they do and that's neither in Steve’s book nor on Sal's DVD. This is why Charlie stated in the cold deck segment that by using a tape you can stop at least 90% of the cold deck moves but the other 10% that you can't he was actually talking about mine.

But he did let out the secrets...no he didn't. He let out stuff that was already known to the casinos and since he was the only one fluent enough to explain a lot of the things, he just elaborated and capitalized on it. Did I not just previously stated if I showed you 100 moves and explained them logically to you (that didn't get the money) did I teach you anything? Yes and no, I did teach you stuff but I taught you stuff that we no longer use any more (at least the advanced cheats). So who in the casino has enough knowledge that can check his hand and say that he didn't show them everything he knew? No one because they don't know. Why? Because they are getting magicians like Jimmy Swain to help them out on things. Read between the lines.

Did you not see Jimmy next to Steve in the footage that they took together at the card table? Even though it seems as though they were having fun Steve was doing real moves and Jimmy wasn't. Jimmy was showing push off second deals on a T.V. show claiming that they were middle deals to the audience. Besides all this how can you tell a person what he knows and what he doesn't; only God and angels can do that unless he (the individual) showed you more being a friend and you can testify to it and I'm testifying here today.

A lot of hustler's claim that the movie "Shade" did the same thing. One instance when I was on the road hustling I believe I was going to the "Foot Wash" then. I mentioned when the subject of the movie Shade came up after the guy said that those guys showed too much I explained no they didn't it just looks a lot to an amateur hustler and the guy in the car got insulted. After seeing the countenance on his face change I said here look at this video of me switching dice on my laptop. As he watched his jaw dropped as he replayed the videos over and over again. Then I showed him the footage of Damian Neiman and myself together after showing him the Shade movie and the special features presentation. I then explained, I wasn't insulting your skills but there has been a lot of new moves invented since long ago and you can bet on it that this guy was one of our best hustlers according to the streets.

The subject of me came up to him when he got busted by an individual he was cheating when using the bump (a finger nail indentation) and his friend which is my friend told him that I wouldn't have gotten busted because of how tiny my punch work is. This guy and me became good friends since that time and he has since taught me a lot of things that I never knew. Street hustling is totally different than what you learn here listening to magicians and from the books and this is what I'm teaching ya'll.

To the readers of this thread Trust Me On This...

Steve HAS NOT VIOLATED the Hustler's Code of Silence and Keeping the Sleeper Sleep Code he only explained what was already obvious to them and moves that is obsolete to us. Sal also kept the cheater code and showed obsolete moves. I know this to be true because I have the footage of his never before seen skills too to prove it. (Steve's Footage and Sal's Footage is Not the Same). Oh by the way the casinos are not letting you know how much they are getting too...think about it. Why is it when they show cheaters getting caught they always show you old footages that are not very clear? Why is it that they don't want you to see the clear ones? So you can get ideas and advance the other cheater's move who got caught.

Now on the other hand Dave Malek's DVD of which many of you are sleeping on is more informative and street than many realize but you dismiss it because you magicians are only interested in the flashy moves and not the logic nor technique behind the moves which make an experts knowledge unique.

Gentlemen You Have Honored the Hustlers Code and Mr. D. Malek...I'm Scared of You.


Sincerely,

The Doctor

Tommy you know it might be wacky and since you've probably been in the game way longer than I, I have to respect your viewpoint being the hustler that you are. Remember I mentioned that I was a magician first so I need to listen....I also stated that this is probably why they didn't mention me for my safety because I'm a still active hustler. This only confirms my statement that I previously wrote that it was the devil messing with my mind puttiing envy in my heart.

Tommy thanks for waking me up with that knowledge and I very much appreciate it. READERS I STAND CORRECTED about being acknowledged for my safety sake.

Tommy it's an honor knowing you.


A Teacher But Still A Student

Signed

The Doctor

P.S. Readers you see that by talking to real hustlers you can still always learn something new that will advance your street knowledge. Today Doc has been taught a fine lesson from a great teacher and this is why I don't mind being a student as well.

This "Is Not A Beef" (stop changing my words) it was what "I was thinking out loud" and this is why I say Reading Comprehension 101 is definitely necessary...and being that I spoke out loud (meaning posting this thought to the forum I got the help I needed) a teacher by the name of Tommy came along and spanked my butt, put a Dunce Cap on my head and sat me in a corner and showed me for my protection how wrong I was and that most likely they were saving my life by not naming me being that I am a still active card hustler.

Mook this is the answer that I was unknowingly looking for and I got it while all ya'll could do was bash me telling me to prove it and that I was angry and that I had a beef with my friends when I didn't.



No I don't need to look in the mirror. Why is it that Tommy comprehended my post and answered me and you didn't…because he comprehended. You're the one who rants on and on and didn't even know what I was looking for. Only true or advanced hustlers have these answers and if you were an advanced cheat you would have known this but since you're not, you didn't and now you want to argue with me that I’m disrespecting you. Because you’re Sal’s friend and talk to him a lot does not make you knowledgeable and able to speak and answer questions on our level.

I Know Truth When I Hear Truth

This is not the only time that I've read Tommy's post and they have corrected my wrong way of thinking. Example "You Can't Cheat An Honest Man" and Tommy posted an analogy about people having their homes taken from them by con men and proved me wrong and I know what he posted was true because after I read it, Gen. Chapter 3 popped into my mind when the Devil did con an honest and perfect man (Adam and Eve) so I knew then his knowledge regarding street far exceeded mine.



Mook you are 100% correct here. My problem was not clearing up anything you addressed because in my book I matter first and I was in the process of clearing up my own state of mind, so how in the world was I suppose to be trying to clear up yours when mine wasn’t right.



Mook keep me in your prayers and thank you for praying for me because I do need all the help that I can get.

Signed

Just Speaking Man to Man

Doc

P.S. Readers Street Knowledge and having a college education is not the same thing to us because with Street Knowledge you can also hustle and work the street if necessary and still survive. When I speak I'm mainly talking about Street and Hustler Knowledge.

Amen, to street knowledge. I don't think I would be here now if not for knowing the streets.

Halcon