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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts 
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[quote]On 2006-05-30 09:25, JackScratch wrote:
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I deny it. I insist that in order to be a good magicican, one must be a philosopher at the same time. You have to impart something deaper than simply doing a "trick" to be a good magician. It is essential to the art form. Why? |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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[quote]On 2006-05-30 17:45, Whit Haydn wrote:
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On 2006-05-30 09:25, JackScratch wrote: Thought I summed it up pretty completely. So we aren't just doing "tricks". So that our sole purpose in life isn't just fooling people. That may suit you, but I feel like magic should be slightly more than just a 3rd grade riddle. |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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I don't think you have to "impart" something "deeper" than the trick itself in order for magic to be an artform.
There is an awful lot of stuff going on in the process of the trick itself that is of human and intellectual interest. Why must we "impart" something deeper than our artform itself? People used to think the same way about painting. They felt that a painting had to express some meaning or make a point. Magic is a perfectly legitimate artform in its own right. It does not need to have meaning "saddled on" to it. And why would you assume that I would be satisfied with anything less than art? I believe that the dilemma itself is the message and meaning of our art. Everything else is dressing and entertainment--the cape of theater that hides the sword of the dilemma. |
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts
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The problem with the idea that we should be philosophers or convey our philosophy is - is it our intent on starting a cult, club, followers, guild, religion, secret society,... anon?
POOF!
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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And those whose hearts are fixed on Reality itself deserve the title of Philosophers.
Plato, Republic, 380BC ) Can your heart be fixed on Reality as you are doing magic? Obviously not! That’s the nuts so give me the pot.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
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I think in the meeting of performer and audience in any live performance art, there is a larger circle to consider than just the particularities of the given art. I am NOT speaking of tacked on "meaning" or "message" but a consideration of this gathering of people, tonight; a recognition of the need for sharing, communication, and affirmation of humanity. The "nowness" of this moment. You can always tell which performers keep this in mind, and which do not.
Otherwise, who is it for? Yes, hearts must be fixed on reality, and what it is to be human in the year 2006. Jack Shalom
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-30 19:35, kregg wrote: Exactly, they are separate functions. Art can express a philosophical argument, IE CONVEY it. The problem comes when trying to take working magic as conveyance to arbitrary argument or philosophy. If your argument suggests a physical metaphor, go for it. That is called making art.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Look, I will concede I was lucky and you have all had a bad beat. Get over it and lets play the next hand.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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No one you observe telling the truth can possibly be doing magic?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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Tommy, that'sa a different thread and one that has not been resolved in the minds of all. Myself in particular. In fact, I think you are as wrong as it is possible to be. Magic is all about truth. So back off, you haven't won squat.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-06-03 13:22, tommy wrote: Actually, magic is about a truth which resonates with the person though it is dissonant with the normal experience of common reality.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts
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That's what I was thinking Jonathan.
Truth & lies are our tools and our weapons. We're not talking about a breech of ethics here. Is one more apt to use a butter knife to turn a screw or a screw driver?
POOF!
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-06-03 16:54, kregg wrote: We do the best we can with materials at hand.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts
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On 2006-06-03 16:54, kregg wrote: It depends. Are you asking me or my wife?
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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No magician is a philosopher can be confirmed by the observation of those who tell the truth.
No one you observe telling the truth can possibly be doing magic according to Whit. It is possibly someone telling the truth is philosophising. It follows that Whit is wrong when he claims that you can be a photosphere and a magician at the same time. Jack is also wrong but he can not accept the fact that he tells lies when he does magic. In fact every one has lost the argument except for yours truly. Yours truly Tommy :)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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I am a photosphere, Tommy. You HAVE to be a magician to turn into a photosphere.
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts
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I was driving one day and turned into a Photomat once. Does that count?
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Oh no! he only got me again. I will get him one day. I must try harder.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-06-03 20:21, tommy wrote: You are dilusional. The only person you are lying to is yourself. So far you responses to my posts have all very carefuly ignored the parts of my posts that clearly show what you are doing incorrectly. I have no use for this variety of sillyness. You don't get to declare yourself the winner. You can do it, but that action comes with an instantanious loss of credibility. Assuming you had any to start with. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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Jack
It would be impolite for me to say; I very carefully ignore you as I do not want to cause anguish and heartrending jolts to your insufferable conceit. A quiet, unostentatious demeanour and gentlemanly reserve are best calculated to answer your posts I feel. Whit on the other hand is no sucker, knows a joke when he sees one, and the comments were meant for his ears rather than your yours. So I will say nothing in response to your comments. Love Tommy X
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Posted: May 30, 2006 09:45 pm 
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