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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Most deceptive demo you have seen (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

gandolf
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Hillsborough,NC
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Having just purchased Glass Magic, I am extremely disappointed in the reality of the effect versus the illusion of the demo video. The two effects which impressed me the most on the demo are impossible to replicate as presented. I also purchased Straw based on the demo. Once again, impossible to replicate as presented.

Any other demos you have seen which are "deceptive" in their presentation (pun intended)? Perhaps you can save a Café member some money, or at least make them think twice before buying an effect.
iamslow
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What do you mean by glass magic?? magic that use a glass??
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
victor_cubed
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irvine, ca
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UTCW by Eric James.
simon hughes
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I beleiev that demo videos should represent the trick they are selling. If they don't then they are against trade descriptions.
Chance Wolf
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As a manufacturer and marketer of magic effects, I will chime in on this topic.
I have done very few online video demos. However, the few I have put out are all done the same way.
Straight camera shot, closely framed to the action, no edits, no fancy lighting or effects..not much of anything but me just doing the darn trick.
My main reason is have NO EXTRA TIME to do all the fancy stuff and in the end it is to mine and your benefit.
Ya see what it is and exactly what you get in real working condition.
I prefer it this way. Beats the hell out of spending HOURS in the Café trying to explain myself Smile
take care
Chance
Wolf's Magic
Creator of Wacky Wolf Productions & Fine Collectibles

A DECADE of building Magic and we're just getting started!

http://www.wolfsmagic.com
teevtee
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The way Chance just described the way he does demo videos is 100% the CORRECT way and should be the ONLY way demo videos are done.

For the potential purchaser it shows what the effect REALLY looks like. How a spectator REALLY will see it. This is invaluable info and helps to sell (or sometimes dissuade one from purchasing) the effect.

For the seller this type of demo does even more. On one level it may help sell the effect, great, but it does much more. It opens an honest dialogue with buyers, it says "Hey, here it is, no B.S. THIS is really what it is, you don't have to trust me or my description, what you see is what you get. This means that no one would ever have the right to go backl and complain and say "This is not what I thought it would be" which means a LOT less headaches after the sale. Assuming the effect is good the seller will also sell a LOT mre effects buy showing the demo.

So good, simple, clear demos are GREAT for everyone involved. Unfortunately deceptive videos do the exact opposite thing. It confuses buyers because instead of clarifying what they are going to get it tricks them into thinking they are getting something they are not. It causes MORE complaints and headaches after the sale for the seller and it also creates a TON of ill will. In the end word gets out about bad videos and that REALLY harms a reputation of a seller (people think that if you have to mislead us in videos then the tricj really must have no worth on it's own merits).

So the bottom line is this. If you are a good, honest seller of magic create and show us TRUTHFUL and clear videos that simply show the effect from start to finish as it REALLY would be seen (an added bonus as Chance points out is that this is the SIMPLEST way to shoot a demo as well). If you are unable or unwilling to do this type of video then do NO video. If you sell some tricks fine, if not it is probably because you have no video. But under NO circumstaces should misleading or deceptive videos EVER be tolerated, it is simply tatmount to STEALING from cunsumers and we should never put up with that or allow it.

This forum is created "For magicians to help other magicians" and I can not think of anything else that is more helpful than being warned of deceptive sales techniques or for that matter encouraging honest and truthful sales.
niva
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Malta (Europe)
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I understood what gandolf is referring too. For me the video demo was not deceptive but only because I have a good idea how it works. So I assumed.

Another deceptive demo is for the King Rising. I am sorry about this, because ellusionist have been great with my orders, always. But that demo is very deceiving.

Another recent one is for Glass Mirage. Too many cuts.

And all those videos which cut to put a black screen with a couple of words and then resume are to be questioned.

On the other hand, Jay Sankey has got the most straight forward demos and he gets bashed for that. Because you know exactly what you are getting most of the time.
Yours,

Ivan
joseph
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I agree 100%.....Turn the camera on.....Tape the demo....No cut scenes, and no credits or giant sentences blocking the performer....then turn the camera off....Just like you would see it performed live... right in front of you... Smile ..
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Einstein)...
harishjose
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Why is this topic here?
It was moved by one of the moderators. But why here?
To believe is Magic.
clusters
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I'll have to disagree about Eric James' Ultimate Card Thru Window.
All card thru window effects require some sort of setup.
If you look at John Kennedy's and Peter Marvey's version, they require some heavy setup as well...
I guess most people are dissapointed with Eric James' version is because the DVD was sold at a cheaper price compared to the other 2, hence people expect it to be something really simple
kingkong611
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Unfortunatly it brings to mind the old saying, you can never juges a book by its cover. a lot of magic does give that false since of effect, but that's what makes a sale. a perfect example is the effect called the pocket levitator what a peace of juke, but it reads well so I brought it. CD's and Videos are the same watching them perform the effect is great but the larning part of is not well thout out thus making the effect hard to learn.
Nick23
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Hmm.. this is a tough one. I think they we only don't want to see any edits etc in a video is so we can try to see how its done... chances are if you figure it out, you probably wont buy it.

I don't mind so much if there are edits, as the effect we see in the edited video will be what the spectator "will see/remember". If you like the effect presented, buy it, you aren't just buying the method.
Nothing I do can't be done by a 10-year-old...with 15 years of practice."
-- Harry Blackstone, Jr.
teevtee
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Not wanting edits has nothing to do with trying to figure out how it is done. It is simply that in a real life performance there are no cuts./ There is no time when you will be "off camera" so to speak. So you simply want a true representation of what you get.

I have never not purchased an effect because I knew the method ahead of time. In fact I generally find that a POSITIVE thing because I know there willbe no unwanted surprises that way.
niva
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Nick I am not sure that what you are saying is always true. Sometimes very crucial parts are omitted from demos which audiences will see and remember.
Yours,

Ivan
Nick23
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If anything is true about a spectator's memory of an effect, is that its very bad. You only need to hear them describe to one of their friends an effect you did for them to realise that. They will often describe things that never happened.

If I make a video demo of a card to impossible location but edit out the part when I perform the mercury card fold I don't see that as a problem. The audience wont see you do it the fold, so the effect in the edited video and in performance, are in my opinion the same.

On another note though, how many trick descriptions have you read that you thought sounded great, but when you did see an un-edited/uncut demo video did you decide not to buy it because you were dissappointed with the reality of the effect?

As for the "not buying it if you figure it out" comment, that is only true (for me at least) if the interest in a trick is just one of curiosity of the method, and not one of actually considering to perform it.
Nothing I do can't be done by a 10-year-old...with 15 years of practice."
-- Harry Blackstone, Jr.
Magicsquared
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Quote:
On 2006-05-08 13:19, Nick23 wrote:
If anything is true about a spectator's memory of an effect, is that its very bad. You only need to hear them describe to one of their friends an effect you did for them to realise that. They will often describe things that never happened.

If I make a video demo of a card to impossible location but edit out the part when I perform the mercury card fold I don't see that as a problem. The audience wont see you do it the fold, so the effect in the edited video and in performance, are in my opinion the same.

On another note though, how many trick descriptions have you read that you thought sounded great, but when you did see an un-edited/uncut demo video did you decide not to buy it because you were dissappointed with the reality of the effect?


You're confusing two different things.

1. The way a spectator will remember an effect that fooled them. (Often innacurately, making it more impressive)
2. The way a spectator will remember an effect that didn't fool them. (Usually fairly accurately)

Often demo videos are edited in such a way that they cut out critical actions that make an effect that wouldn't fool anybody appear to be an effect that would.
Nick23
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The one problem about showing magic on film is that often misdirection doesn't work. If a switch/ditch/steal etc is performed outside of camera shot, but the effect is still shown in one continuous take, does that count as a deceptive demo? Those type of moves would normally be masked by misdirection.
Nothing I do can't be done by a 10-year-old...with 15 years of practice."
-- Harry Blackstone, Jr.
teevtee
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Nick:

A couple of thoughts:

I agree that there have been many times I have read descriptions and then been disapointed in the actual effect. Either it was not what it says it was or I assumed it to be different or whatever. But the thing is that in todays world there ARE video demos and people now expect them. This is just the way it is. Things change and just because something worked on way in the past does not make it valid today. I am willing to bet that any given effect with a good video demo FAR outsells that same effect had it not ever had a video. On top of that the videos protect the creator as well as the consumer. By showing honest and clear video nobody can claim they did not get what they were expecting.

As far as figuring out methods and so forth. You know, you are probably correct. There are probably some small percentage of people who watch demos JUST to figure the effect out... but would they have purchased it anyway? Lets say the effect is so good that they CAN'T figure it out... I bet that makes a sale, without a video that sale would not have occured. But more importantly these videos are designed to be sold to magicians, right? These are not general consumer products... they are sales tools. Most magicians probably understand basic mthods to most effects before ever seeing a video anyway. If they can dedect a murcury fold or whatever so be it... that has no impact on the effect being sold. Because Magic is so sensetive and more often than not it is not returnable it is especially important to make the demos clear and simple.

You have some good points about misdirection and so forth not working well on video, but honestly, soem of these demos just lie. They say things like no switches or what not and then the effect they show use switches. I just don't see how anyone can argue that that is OK.
The Mac
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Let me chime in here:

I am a very wary buyer - so a video is the best thing for me. Being schooled in video production- I also know what to look for in a deceptive edited video ( jump cuts, continuity , subtle lighting and angle changes).

Lets be honest : we are watching in order to see how good the effect is - if we figure it out buy watching it - either the trick (or performance was NOT very good) end result: we would have been dissappointed if we bought it

Video's with titles breaking up the action : meh, sometimes trying to be stylistic - but most of the time its to cover a crucial sleight. You know it and I know it.

At the end of the day, we are watching as a prospective buyer. A deceptive video by a dealer or creator will eventually lead to only one thing : disreput!
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