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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Blaine and the horns of the dilemma (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Whit Haydn
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No, Kregg. I was referring to some of the examples of shows I had cited, such as McComb's. (BTW Billy's entire Palace act is available at http://www.scoundrelsphotos.com under Magic Videos)

The performer might do a whole act of magic-related comedy, theatrical depictions of magic, and related arts, but at the end, close with a magic effect.

That is what I meant by "eventually." Like McComb's Vanishing Bird Cage. Billy had a lovely and entertaining act in which "nothing much happened, but gradualy." Then the bird cage.
Patrick Differ
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Saxman asks of Dave:

Quote:
I've wondered about that. Perhaps, to a large extent, a cynical American audience provides one ready-made horn?


The exact same thought occurred to me. And it made me think that, with one horn ready-made, my efforts are better spent developing the other one, and that I should really polish the work so that there could not be any other way. And as soon as I thought that, it bugged me.

What bugged me about it is that I would be assuming too much by expecting everyone to know that there is no such thing as magic, even in the USA (which is a WHOLE lot different than Mexico!) Developing this side of the dilemma must be done, one way or another, whichever country I'm in, because it just can't be taken for granted.

And Billy McComb's Birdcage routine is absolutely diabolical. He sets up the one horn by cornballing and BSing. No such thing happening HERE.... and then...

And, as you may have already surmised, I really like the BSing part. No BS. Smile
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

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RandyStewart
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Quote:
On 2006-05-12 23:31, Patrick Differ wrote:
Saxman asks of Dave:

Quote:
I've wondered about that. Perhaps, to a large extent, a cynical American audience provides one ready-made horn?


The exact same thought occurred to me. And it made me think that, with one horn ready-made, my efforts are better spent developing the other one, and that I should really polish the work so that there could not be any other way. And as soon as I thought that, it bugged me.


Relax. Ever notice how many performing artists (musicians to magicians) made their money overseas before, if ever, giving their American audience an opportunity to buy a ticket to their show? You can teach such a one, even two horned, MTV mentality that there is more to this by taking it elsewhere.

I'm one of the most grateful and proudest Americans but why even begin with them? It's a big world compadre!

Travel with me and see what we do with horned beasts. Torro!

Horns Shmorns....hang what you like where you like...
RandyStewart
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Patrick what happened to your Avatar? I liked it. Don't tell me it didn't appeal to some American.
saxmangeoff
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Ok, I've been thinking about this a lot (maybe too much Smile) lately. Here's what I've come to so far. Whit, please correct any misunderstanding I have.

The "horns of the dilemma" is NOT a definition of what makes magic good, it is a definition of what makes magic magic. (Magic as in stage magic, not any of the other 10,000 things that get the term applied to them.)

So, there are the two horns. Over on one, you have someone doing puzzles. Over on the other, you have charlatans, like TV psychics. Magic is that middle ground where one side is played against the other. One can be successful, entertaining, and popular on one horn or the other, or in the middle. But the performer can only be called "magician" if he/she is in that middle ground.

Geoff
"You must practice your material until it becomes boring, then practice it until it becomes beautiful." -- Bill Palmer
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2006-05-12 15:10, kregg wrote:
If David Blaine decided to perform a straight jacket escape would you wait around for two hours to watch him wriggling on a rope, while the monitors showed you clips of how they sew straight jackets or bind bull rope? On the other hand, if he announce that he was going to jump out of a plane in a straight jacket without a chute you'd probably tune in for the ordeal. Just like the under water stunt. It got your interest. Not so with me, I deplore "TV magic." Besides, I tend to get out more than most and I prefer real life experiences. The guy trying to sell me a High Definition TV told me that I could see an individual blade of grass. I asked him if it would mow the lawn while I watched it!
An opinion one way or another doesn't lessen David's accomplishments as a magician. Yes, he is a magician and for attention he performs stunts. It's like topping an ice cream sunday with a cherry, if you don't like cherries don't put it in your mouth.


A straight jacket, as opposed to what? As opposed to a mauve velvet jacket with a lace dickey?

Check out this thread:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......71&3

Go to the third post down.
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edh
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Whit [QUOTE] Not everything a magician does has to be magic. A performance might include all sorts of magic and related arts to be rounded out. [quote]
Isn't that a contridicting of terms?

No magic no magician.

A performance that includes "all sorts of magic" is a magic act. Hence a magician.
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Bill Palmer
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A magic show can have a musical number in it, it can have a juggling number in it. There can be a hypnotic segment. None of these are actually magic, but they will add to the interest of the show.

And in a show that lasts a couple of hours, 15 minutes of variety isn't a bad thing. Nor does it cancel out the idea that it is a magic show.

But it's dangerous. Sometimes the variety acts come off better than the magician.
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magicalaurie
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Quote:
On 2006-05-11 19:34, Whit Haydn wrote:

It should be interesting to any artist to try to understand the choices that another has made, and especially if that other is as successful and iconic as Blaine. It does not add or take away from Blaine to analyze what it is that he is doing. That is the right way for a place like this forum to operate.


I agree. Heartily. Smile
magicalaurie
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On 2006-05-12 14:46, RandyStewart wrote:
He said the panic state, despite having every working device/equipment to keep you alive, can occur and is a very strong and real condition which can get you killed.


I believe Houdini was concerned about this as well. Perhaps even his chief dilemma.
rhinomax
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But charlatans are often much more successful than artists. And some people crossover from art to charlatanry--and sometimes back.


A perfact example is the casino rouelette (trick ? ) Davids narritive patter states "thay won't let me gamble in the casinos any more" and then proceedes to do just that assumingly using real mentalism to win $3000 for a well endowed birthday girl (memories of Uri Geller specials in the 70's).BTW Uri and Dave have been known to hang together

Whit I too like David but he is more of a tv actor and stunt man than he is a magician. TV referes to Blain as an Illusionist, if the illusion is well edited TV that is true.

I would like to see a little more CYA on the part of his producers IE "the camera never pans away " or no stooges or hired spectators are used in these illusions. This holds true for pulling someones teeth out and spitting them back in or making the space shuttle vanish. without this credability your magic is on par with Sabrina the teen age witch. I like her too.

I would like to close this thought with this .
I am sure David Blaines double lift is far better than mine. his bank accnt far bigger.his ability to sit in one place, not eat , endure pain ,cry publicly,and make tv viewers think he is real is bewildering.

But then again I am just a guy that does tricks
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kregg
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Sorry Bill, I did mean pressed and starched mauve velvet jacket with a lace dickey. What do you think I meant?
To quote my brother, "Who teached you how to talk?"
POOF!
Josh Riel
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You said "Dickey".......... heh, heh
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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