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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » TLR - Ethics Copies etc.. (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

The Bonnie Kids
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Hi!
I am following with interest the ethics article on TLR. At FISM website there was a discussion that could be continued here if you are interested, because I believe the word "ethic" is not very well defined.
If you want have a look to this link:

http://www.fism.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=280

and if you feel the discussion can be continued here. I am also a bit confused on this subject..

My regards

The Bonnie Kids
Michael J. Douglas
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Well, you're opening a can of worms, huh? Smile

What parts are you confused about?
Michael J.
�Believe then, if you please, that I can do strange things.� --from Shakespeare�s �As You Like It�
The Bonnie Kids
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Why should I open a can of worms?
What I'm confused about is the following: we (magicians) have a always referred to a strong ethics. I remember this word since the 80's, when I joined the I.B.M. and I was 14, but I always believed something like "do not expose your tricks etc"
What was discussed at FISM was to take echonomical actions against copies, in name of the ethics. Then the question of the floating table came (actually I was thinking the same thing, if something is not patented, who cares!) and I went back to the articles on ethics published on IBM. No, if something is not patented we magicians do care and can also make mistakes in name of the ethics (see always teh FISM discussion).
We magicians are also "normal" people for most of the days, and probably we carry another business, where "copy/paste" is the latest (disgusting) trend. So what should I do? As magician I do not do "copy/paste" but as "civil" yes?
I see a lot of possible discussions here, that's why I left the question open.
These are just few of my doubts, after reading TLR and FISM discussions.
Another thing: I really do not see why should this topic be closed at FISM site. It was the most popular..

// Andrea
Dave V
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From what I saw on the FISM site the topic was resolved so no further discussion was necessary.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
The Bonnie Kids
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My main question was not on the FISM site. Anywa, regarding that, one topic was resolved, but the discussion was much larger than that.
Michael J. Douglas
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What I think you're asking is, "If copying ideas takes place in other types of businesses, why not in magic?"

Well, two wrongs don't make a right, but....


Magical creations can be labelled "intellectual property." This is a term used to refer to property rights created through intellectual and/or discovery efforts of a creator that are generally protectable under patent, trademark, copyright, trade secret, etc. Magic would be listed under "trade secrets," which is a secret method, formula or device that remains unpatented in order to keep it a secret.
Therefore, although an effect may not be patented, it's still the property of it's creator. Without his/her consent for someone to use his/her creation, it would be stealing to use it. It's even worse, if someone steals an effect and markets it.

So, why don't magicians patent their effects?
To have something patented, you must expose the method. You must submit a diagram of it's construction, how it's used, for what purpose it's used, etc. Not only that, but patents are public record and can now be found online. This means that anyone with the effort can not only see how a magic effect is done, but build it themselves. This is why most magicians don't patent their effects. It wouldn't be good for business, huh?

I hope I've answered some of your questions.
Best
Michael J.
�Believe then, if you please, that I can do strange things.� --from Shakespeare�s �As You Like It�
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2006-05-21 12:13, magis6 wrote:...in order to keep it a secret.
Therefore, although an effect may not be patented, it's still the property of it's creator. Without his/her consent for someone to use his/her creation, it would be stealing to use it. It's even worse, if someone steals an effect and markets it....


Keep this in mind folks

And remember it is likewise no "innocent" mistake to associate with those who offer such items.

If you want your secrets safe, quit hanging out with, selling to and buying from those who offer other people's material that was taken without permission.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
The Bonnie Kids
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You see that there is space for a discussion?

Magis6 I have very much appreciated your very consequent explanation. I think you gave a juridical position to us magicians.
How much or your explanation can be classified under "ethics"? I mean, how much of it I can say "I agree but I don't care.." ?

And more: how much of it could/should be applied to our "normal life" (I work for an international company for instance, as electrical engineer. I write a lot of documents/papers from scratch, I mean I add my phantasy to the technical content. I see that my papers are very often copyed and nobody asks me the permission for it, or nobody gives me the credit for those information.
Is this a similar situation?

My regards

// Andrea
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