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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Casino and Blackjack cheating (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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razix
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Out of curiosity, can anybody give me any refernces to videos that teach you how to card count the best at casino's, I'd love to see it in action.

Also, I heard some of the dealers at casino's get hired to cheat, does anybody have more info. What kind of sleights do they use to cheat.

I'd also like to know what some of you knew about the "ace locating" technique by Thomas Hyland.

Thanks
Expertmagician
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DVDs....videos....blah...the best info is in books..try reading and you will find some very good card counting material.

As far as Casinos are concerned.....no one would ever admit what you ask, even if it were true the odds of you conforming it are between slim and non. Even government NSA secrets are more likely to leak Smile
Long Island,

New York
Clock
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Why not try it yourself? Just stand by a table and count through a shoe. It is really quite exciting when you see the dealer has an 8 up and a player has 12, while you have a + 11 count in your head. You know he shouldn't hit, and when he does he busts. It's a lot of fun. Of course, I can't play being 17, but I can this summer on my cruise :0
Grant Carden

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Expertmagician
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Very funny Clock...22,751 posts
Can't fool people who read Smile
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New York
Clock
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Hehe... Smile
Grant Carden

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razix
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I'm also 17, how long have you been doing this for clock?
Clock
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Magic since I was 7, gambling since I was 14. I turn 18 in a week Smile
and I currently live on 68 Posts Drive, GA.
Grant Carden

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Dannydoyle
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Clock you need a heck of a lot more information than you are giving to count man. For example the "true count". If you saw a single deck shoe get to a +11 count, then you have seen something so rare as to be the White Elephant.

I would also like to mention that card counting is NOT cheating friends. I do it all the time. It is simply taking advantage of natural circumstances. PERIOD. NO place on the planet calls it cheating.

They can bar you for it if they suspect you. They can not arrest you for it. Cheating is an arrestible offence. So it may be a slight difference, but it is important to know.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Clock
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Danny,

I was giving an exagerated circumstance in order to get my point across. I wasn't teaching him how to count cards. I was also talking about a 6-8 deck shoe, not single deck.

I am by no means a card counter at all. I practice counting with the speed of the dealer. The higher the count, the greater the probability your gonna get knocked in the face with paint. Knowing that is fun. Sorry, that's all I really meant to say. BTW, a White Elephant? Never knew that, thanks for sharing!
Grant Carden

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Vandy Grift
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BTW a White Elephant is not meant to describe something rare(although they are rare)but rather to denote something of limited value or an undue financial burden that is thrust upon someone. Carry on.

Clock, you have great hands, I liked your videos. Great stuff!
"Get a life dude." -some guy in a magic forum
razix
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There are no videos that teach this thing though?
Craig Krisulevicz
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Just get Beat the Dealer for 7 bucks and see if this is really something you want to get into. There's no instant gratification.
Who is John Galt?
Patrick Differ
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Black Belt in Blackjack. Red 7 count. Eliminate the math converting from running to true. Also works on multiple deck games.

Beat the Dealer. 10 count. Pretty good on a single deck, expecially one that offers 2-1 insurance. But takes a ton of practice to figure out the shortcut and do correctly and continually.

Avoid shallow penetrations. Avoid dealers that know how to shuffle. Avoid Dealer Hits Soft 17. Avoid alcohol. And avoid Blackjack pays 6-5 on any game as if it were an STD.

Read Stanford Wong's tables on how various rules affect House Advantage. And read Bill Zender, too; especially his book "Card Counting for the Casino Executive." Gambler's Book Club. Las Vegas. I think. If not, try UNLV to find Zender himself. I think.

All in all, I still prefer dinging the 5's and cutting them to the bottom when it's my turn to. Less work. That's gleaned from Beat the Dealer.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair
-can ne'er come down again.
T. Joseph O'Malley
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Kids gamble these days. Go to any high school and you'll find kids playing poker, shooting dice, betting on sports. So if someone says "gambling since I was 14", it's most likely true.

If someone said "i've been a gambling expert since I was 14", well maybe that's questionable. But that isn't what Clock said.
tjo'
sodman12
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So whats the best book for it?
I would like to learn
whats the best book to start with and what a more advanced book after I have learned the basics?
you can fool all of the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but never all of the people all the time.
mook
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Quote:
On 2006-05-18 20:41, razix wrote:
There are no videos that teach this thing though?


"The Hot Shoe" is a documentary on card counting and has the authors of some very good books on it, along with some very big-name players: Steve Forte, Arnold Snyder, John Chang (M.I.T. Team)... It shows them playing and preparing, but does NOT teach you how to count. It's worth having in your collection.
mxray
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The number one mistake most neophyte counters make is not having basic strategy memorized absolutely cold before trying to count. Please don't make this same mistake and put the cart before the horse...

Patrick Differ is on the money. Black belt in Blackjack is a great place to start. ALso, in one of the last chapters, it has sort of an "introduction" to tracking for those interested.

Another book/system that I would recommend for people just starting out in counting is "Knockout Blackjack" . The KO system is an unbalanced system. Originally these were not thought to be that powerful, but after Don Schlesinger ran many many simulations on them, it turned out they were nearly as good as HiLo, the most commonly used system. The added advantage of KO for a beginner is that most people just starting out in counting are less likely to make mistake in real life play with a system like this. I think a system like this a a great starter. Then if someone becomes proficient , they can move on to Zen, Hi Lo one of the hi opt systems or something like that.

The next biggest mistake is players overbetting their bankroll. Don Schlesinger's "Blackjack Attack" has done so much for the math of the game, and can really help you understand keeping you risk of ruin as low as possible. In order to under stand the math of the game, I would heartily recommend this book. I don't know of a serious counter who doesn't have it, and refer to it often.

Wong's "Professional Blackjack" is also an essential resource for a counter as well. It has more indices for Hi Lo than any other source available, though its a pretty dry read. More counters use Hi Lo than any other system, and ther ihave been many sis and studies done on this system, so there is a wealth of support material for this system.

I would strongly encourage you to forget ace sequencing or tracking for a while. Both are pretty advanced, and I certainly souldn't recommend it for someone just new to counting.

Forget "Beat The Dealer". It was certainly a landmark book in its day, but much of the info is outdated ( not just my opinion) and the bet sizing strategies are no longer enough of a spread to make playing a shoe game winnable, mathematically, in the long run.

MXRay
Craig Krisulevicz
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MXRay,

I agree with everything you said except "forget 'beat the dealer'".

It is outdated, but I still think it is essential. It gives the reader a look into the mind that started it all...
Who is John Galt?
mxray
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We only disagree slightly.
8^)
There is little arguement that Beat The Dealer is one of the most important books of all time for Blackjack, in terms of history. You are right, it opened the door and made a lot of later studies improvements and refinements in counting possible.

Though most who count have owned Beat The Dealer at one time or another, (including myself) I don't know of any serious players today that use it for modern day play, for the reasons I mentioned earlier.
It has been previously discussed on Stanford Wong's site, if you care to check it out.

Also, when asked, most experienced counters usually recommend another resource for beginners as well. Its just that there is now a wealth of more up to date material out there now, that wasn't available when Beat The Dealer came out many years ago.

To each his own.
MXRay
Patrick Differ
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I feel the same way about Beat The Dealer. I'm mixed. I still recommend it because it describes the foundational thought processes of card counting in Blackjack. It's also well written and pretty easy to understand.

Basic Strategy is the beginning. Like mxray says, if you don't know Basic Strategy, you don't know jack. Start there.

One more thing I'll mention. Beat The Dealer got the ball rolling for Blackjack. Before it was published, the main game in town was Craps. Once people started thinking that they could beat Blackjack because they read this book, the tide turned and the demand for Blackjack games increased almost exponentially. The casinos therefore opened more BJ games.

Here's the rub. Just because you read all the good books and practice your system to perfection, that doesn't make you a winner. A lot of people think that because they can beat their home computer's program, they're going to get rich, but they are forgetting that the wonderful train-wrecks such as statistical variation and money management play just as important roles in this game as does being able to make the most advantageous play decisions in a live game. Bankroll and spread are critical; forget how important they are and you'll be singing sad songs and walking home real slow sooner than you think. Take too much advantage with your spread and the casino's management will show you where the exit door is and exactly how to use it sooner than you think. And they don't need a reason in Nevada. All they have to say is that you're 'undesirable' and the law is on their side and you're out the door, pal.

All in all, it's a ton of work. And not many people are really as good as they think they are.

Have fun! Smile
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy;
The way into my parlour is up a winding stair,
And I've a many curious things to show when you are there.

Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain,
For who goes up your winding stair
-can ne'er come down again.
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