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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Men Only!!! (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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dpe666
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If you are a woman you have just proven that you cannot follow instructions. However, that is ok as this topic is about you. I often hear women complain that magic is a "male-dominated-art". My opinion on that is: so what? There are gyms that are "for women only" and they are acceptable, and yet if there was a gym "for men only" there would be protesters and the ACLU blocking the entry way. That is only an example of my feelings. Why is it that the fact that magic is "male-dominated" such a bad thing? Smile
Whit Haydn
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If the domination were "natural"--e.g. that men were more gifted for magic than women--then it would just be what it is. Like male domination of heavyweight boxing.

But there is no natural reason for women not to enjoy and excel at magic. When given the opportunity, many have.

But for many years, men have intentionally kept women out of the "outer" (much less the "inner") circles of magic.

Why should there be one manip act, one illusionist, one talking comedy act and one female act on a magic convention bill? As if female magician were a category...
Decomposed
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Perhaps part of the reason is who do magicians choose the majority of time for a spectator?

Answer: Females
Whit Haydn
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Female magicians choose a majority of Female spectators for assistants?
tommy
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From what I have seen at the card table women can manipulate cards better than men can, at least they seem to be more elegant with cards.

Magicians play the part of a great magician and traditionally these are men. Women who did magic were witches. Now women I think would be better to play the part of a great witch. By the same token that a man should not play the part of a witch so women should not the part of a magician. The problem is witches got themselves a bad image while magicians got themselves a good one.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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magicalaurie
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Men only!!! Bah. Smile

Quote:
On 2006-05-23 06:10, Whit Haydn wrote:
Female magicians choose a majority of Female spectators for assistants?

Not this one.
Skip Way
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Quote:
By the same token that a man should not play the part of a witch so women should not the part of a magician.


Baloney! Early theatrical tradition, in accordance with social mores of the time, looked down upon women who took to the stage. With few exceptions, such women were looked upon as loose and amoral. Men dominated the scene simply because it was socially acceptable to do so...at that time. Since then, Vaudeville, radio, Broadway and television have opened the way for women and welcomed them as stars in their own right. However, the magic fraternity has been slower to adapt. Our art is blessed with many extremely gifted and talented feminine artists in each genre. It's merely a matter of time before they break through the mindless ceiling that blocks their acknowledgement as full equals to the Copperfields, Blaines, Vernons et al and put the stodgy Fem Magi bashers in there antiquated place. I anxiously look forward to that day. You go, Gals!

Skip
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JackScratch
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What we are discussing here is a relic. A natural social climate created by a formaly un naturaly created situation. As stated, at one time men controled the magic community and kept it not only from women, but within a special, hand picked circle. Today, it is hardly like that. Anyone is free to enter the magic community, and as for success, whatever sells, sells. Within our society, there are certain gender trends. Most of them created by our gender biased past. Magic is just such a trend. Statisticly, women tend to take less of an interest in magic in the first place. I don't know that this is something to be fixed or discouraged. Likewise I think women in magic deserve the same support and friendship from the community that we all do. These things must be handled with care. All too often, that done in the name of civil liberty, is more atrocious than what it was ment to fix.
LobowolfXXX
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That's my take on the whole "male-dominated art" thing; more men per capita take an interest in magic. I don't think it's an inherently good or bad thing. It just is. When I took Sports Law as an elective, the male-female ratio was about 5-1. When I took Animal Shelter Law, it was about 3-1 the other way. There's absolutely no empirical reason to think that men and women (or boys and girls) will be equally interested in any particular endeavor, even in the absence of any social stigma or discrimination. I don't think you CAN fix it. I mean, you could have programs designed to mentor and encourage girls and only girls to become magicians, but I don't even think that would do the trick (pun intended).
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kregg
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The number of minorities based on social make up seems disproportionate as well.

The ad council ran a series of commercials in an attempt to attract more women to the field of science.
Know your demo-graph.
POOF!
tommy
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It must be said, women do amaze me.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dave V
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They amaze me too, and unlike many of our tricks, they're really hard to figure out.
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George Ledo
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Not to open up a can of worms, but one question that's fascinated me for years is why the vast majority of assistants and box jumpers have been female. Is it because they look better in tights and leotards than men do? Smile

On the serious side, I've been noticing a slow progression here. Just reading the Linking Ring over the years, I've noticed more and more female magicians on shows and contests and featured in articles -- and this in an organization that has been historically male-oriented. Just like I'm noticing more and more young female cops locally (Highway Patrol, Sheriff, BART, and local police departments). Years ago, if you walked into a hospital ward and saw a female employee, she was a nurse, and a male was a doctor. Nowadays you see more and more female doctors and more and more male nurses.

I don't know if it's that people's interests are changing, or that more and more people are saying, "Hey, never mind the gender -- why can't I do that?"

The times they are a' changing... (Was that Snuffy Smith?)
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Margarette
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Quote:
On 2006-05-23 04:47, dpe666 wrote:
If you are a woman you have just proven that you cannot follow instructions. However, that is ok as this topic is about you. I often hear women complain that magic is a "male-dominated-art". My opinion on that is: so what? There are gyms that are "for women only" and they are acceptable, and yet if there was a gym "for men only" there would be protesters and the ACLU blocking the entry way. That is only an example of my feelings. Why is it that the fact that magic is "male-dominated" such a bad thing? Smile


Care for the two cents of a woman who can't follow directions? Smile

I don't complain that magic is a male-dominated field. If I were to complain about magic being a male-dominated field, I should complain about construction being a male-dominated field, and why does my company only have one project manager of the female gender(me). Yeah, there are times when it is a bit awkward...I'm not "one of the guys" yet I'm not "one of the ladies in the front office." I'm not exactly sure where I fit in. Concerning magic, what I do complain about is when I'm not taken seriously as a magician/escape artist. I complain about trying to have an intelligent conversation about magic with my fellow magicians, and by the end of the conversation, having my "fellow" magician be able to tell my bra size, color and brand...but not be able to tell you the color of my hair (with my hair, it's kinda hard to miss!) What I complain about is being asked where the "real magicians" are. All I ask is a chance to prove myself, as I do in my day job. Don't slam me or tell me I can't do something because I'm a woman. Give me a chance...if I fail, I know I can't, but if I succeed...hey, we've got another set of hands!

I will admit that I did belong to a female only gym for a while (I won the membership at an auction). I could go into my opinions of the female only gyms vs. co-ed gyms, but that's another story. I can remember the controversy surrounding the first woman reporter allowed into the men's locker room after an athletic event. My opinion when that came out...women don't belong in men's locker rooms any more than men belong in women's locker rooms. My opinion hasn't changed.

To be honest...I actually like it that magic is a male dominated field...once I can get past the lecherous old men making passes at me! I'm finding this more evident in the escape area than in 'regular' magic. I can take something that is standard, and since I am a woman, I can put a female spin on it that makes it 'new' and not old hat. It also makes it difficult for men to steal my ideas. Yes, I'll admit that a man could have two male volunteers onstage and ask them "have you ever had fantasies of tying someone up?", but I honestly think it would get a different reaction than what I get!

As anyone who knows me can attest, I'm not what you'd call your typical female. I love to cook, yet I know more about concrete and asphalt than I do about the latest fashion trends. I know how to shoot a pistol, yet I know how to tenderly bandage a skinned knee (complete with 'mommy sugars to make it all better'). I know how to duplicate keys and pick open locks, but I hate running a vacuum cleaner. I believe a woman, or anyone for that matter, should be judged on qualifications for the task, not because of how it will look on federal grant forms.

Like I said...two cents from a woman who can't follow directions (but is not afraid to ASK for directions Smile )

Margarette
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Whit Haydn
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cinemagician
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I wish there were more female magicians if just for the simple fact that if you attend a lecture or convention, the same one or two magicians wives are picked to be the assistant over and over again.

I'd love to hear more from Magicalaurie and Margarette on how your are treated by the the overwelming number of male magicians at conventions, meetings, lectures etc.

Margarette says, "I actually like it that magic is a male dominated field...once I can get past the lecherous old men making passes at me".

In general:

Do male magicians make assumptions about your talents and abilities?

Do you feel like part of the group or not?
...The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity...

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saxmangeoff
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Quote:
On 2006-05-23 10:33, George Ledo wrote:
Not to open up a can of worms, but one question that's fascinated me for years is why the vast majority of assistants and box jumpers have been female. Is it because they look better in tights and leotards than men do? Smile


I'm sure that doesn't hurt. Smile

I also figure a reason is that women tend to be smaller, so they can fit places men can't.

I can't picture, say, Serena Williams as a box jumper.

Geoff
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vinsmagic
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Margrette do you mean lecherous old men like me LOl.I am sure the young ones make passes as well.... You are right in what you say, but I guess it will always be this way in a male oriented field....
thank your for sharing
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EsnRedshirt
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Well, there's always these ladies. I think they're an illusion group called "21-Dream", but I'm not exactly sure, as I can't read most of their website. At least they're five additional female magicians, though (and they're pretty hot... oh, sorry, I guess that's being kinda sexist... Smile )
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dpe666
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What I am after is why does this appear to be a problem in magic? Smile
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