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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Men Only!!! (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Chrystal
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Inner circle
Canada/France
1552 Posts

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Hey Dpe,

Ha! Made me look!

No problem exist when I attend conventions..never felt uncomfortable or made to feel unwelcome in magic. When I first walked into a magic club by myself, I was never made to feel as if women were not encouraged to join. They were a great group and everyone is made to feel welcome. As for the difference in ratios, It appears more women are attending each year and young girls are entering competitions.

If an ole boys school does exist...I've never noticed it or chose not to. I also belong to a car racing club and being it predominately male doesn't bother me either. I wonder who does the complaining you're talking about? Must be the guys that want more females in the art perhaps?

I agree with you Dpe..some things don't seem fair..but then who said life is? Now if you start up a club in your area that only evil looking bald guys with goatees could join (smiles wickedly at this point) I will acknowlege it would be fine with me. I'd still let you join my knitting group however, if you showed interest.

Chrystal :O)
Dave V
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Las Vegas, NV
4824 Posts

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Hi Chrystal,
Now that you've joined in this discussion, I've been wondering...

About Melinda, the "first lady of magic":

She made no effort to conceal her obvious "sex appeal" including revealing outfits and movements. She was pretty much the stereotype of "ditzy blonde" and played it up to the hilt. I met her a few times and spent some time back stage with her and her mom, and I'm pretty well convinced her "blonde act" was no act. Personally, I'm not surprised her star faded fast as she started to outgrow the "twenty something" look.

So, did she help or hurt the image of women in magic?
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
LobowolfXXX
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La Famiglia
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Why do dogs chase cars? Why do eggs need salt? Why do people release DVDs with other people's original effects on them and not give credit? Just one of those things.

I think it's actually beneficial for female magicians; as there are fewer of them, they stand out more. I know that my girlfriend, for instance, is very happy to see a female performer at the Castle, particularly in the close-up gallery, because it's comparatively rare. On a scale of 1-10, a female performer who's a 6 is a bigger hit with her than a male performer who's a 7.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
magicalaurie
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Ontario, Canada
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<---- Straightforward. Hard to figure. I hear ya. Smile

People are people, WHEREVER you go.
todsky
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www.magicstore.ca
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Tina Lennert. This is the best magic performance I've ever seen, period.
youtube.com
Todsky's Magic Shop: over 15,000 tricks, books, DVD s and Card decks. www.magicstore.ca
vinsmagic
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Eternal Order
sleeping with the fishes...
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Todsky, that is just your opinion...
But for me the woman with the most Class in magic
is the Café's own Chrystal ,Just reading her post will tell you that.
I have never seen her perform and sheis probably to modest to say it. I say Chrystal is up there with the best of them,,,,,, men included,,
the godfather
ps I have seen Tina perform many times and yes she is teriffic
Come check out my magic.

http://www.vinnymarini.com
Josh the Superfluous
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The man of
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I think nerdy women are more prone to buy cats. Where geeky guys gravitate to magic and gaming.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2
Dave V
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Las Vegas, NV
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You better watch out, Magicalaurie is rather protective of her cats.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
Lo-Key
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Earth
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I believe from another thread it wast't Magic Lauries Cats in question it was the Hats
magicalaurie
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Ontario, Canada
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Cats and Hats. Smile
Whit Haydn
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V.I.P.
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And Cats in Hats. Smile
magicalaurie
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Ontario, Canada
2955 Posts

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Indeed. Smile
Omega
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I don't think its necesarily a bad thing. If the reason there's less women magicians than men is because they are excluded/not treated with the same respect then there's definately a problem. On the grand scheme of things this isn't the case.

Societal pressures result in there not being many women in magic. Usually when a girl expresses interest in magic she is told how she'd make a great assistant or whatever. I've seen it happen. A young girl once asked me if she could do magic someday like me. I said sure why not. Her mother promptly told her that she needed to be the assistant, not the magician, and that was that. The world simply has a way of steering girls away from magic, and that is kind of shame.
tommy
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Devil’s Island
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Lies are to magic what cloths are to people. Strip magic of lies and the audience can see all that should not be seen. I have never been to a magicians convention but I imagine it must be like an orgy where magicians try to strip each other naked. If there were more women in magic I might have gone along to one by now.
:)
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
kregg
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No daughter of mine is going to be a magician! I expect more out of her.
POOF!
Margarette
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Memphis area
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Is the lack of women in magic a bad thing? No, it's not. The same could be said for a lack of men in the daycare industry. It's just the way things are...for now. I think there are more women in magic today than there were when Doug Henning was on tv (when my brother told me 'girls don't do magic' after I started learning some magic from the kit dad brought home). No matter how many women's libbers are out there, society still has a tendency to compartmentalize what jobs, careers, hobbies, are for the boys and which ones are for the girls. How many fathers cringe when their toddler son picks up big sister's baby doll to play with? I can remember my college speech class. We were introducing ourselves, and a guy in the class gave his name and said his major was nursing. There were a few snickers in the class, and I can remember thinking, "Nursing? for a guy? That's odd!" Then came my turn. I introduced myself and said my major was electrical engineering (I changed my major to construction halfway into my college education). I didn't get the snickers the guy got, but I do remember a very audible, "Huh?" from one student. My graduating class had a total of 12 female graduates in the entire engineering program...three were in the construction technology program. Today, there are more women graduating in the engineering program, but the numbers still favor the men.

Another point to ponder:
Stay at home moms and stay at home dads...for moms, they are most often congratulated for making the "choice" to stay at home. Men are often querried about how they lost their job or something that caused them to be stay at home. Lonestar has a great song about a stay at home dad, and it starts, "Lost my job, came home mad, got a hug and a kiss and 'that's too bad'..."

How many times have you heard a teenage male magician ask how he can use magic to meet girls, or impress this certain girl he likes? Now, how many teenage girl magicians use magic to meet boys or impress a boy she likes?

Margarette
The only stupid question is the one not asked.
Jonathan Townsend
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Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
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Okay, but are there enough albinos and Inuits in magic?

Why doves and parrots, can't we use hawks and penguins?

More diversity please.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Margarette
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Memphis area
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This actually happened at my office. A young hawk flew into one of the windows and was stunned for quite a while. No one wanted to touch it, but we kept checking on it to make sure it was okay. One of my co-workers asked me why didn't I take the bird home and use it in my magic act...I'd be unusual having a hawk instead of a parrot.

Margarette
The only stupid question is the one not asked.
DJP
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London
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Hey all!

Long time since I've posted here but I'll add my 5 pence.

This summer I will be conducting research (for my University Dissertation) into this very question- how are these male/masculine (there is a difference)are constructed within Magic Societies?

I'll be doing most of my research over July-October this year however some of the socio/anthopological literature I have been reading indicate that there are at least 3 main themes that can be applied to Magic Societies:

1) PERFORMANCE through PATRIARCHY- (and not in the traditional magical sense) where men are assumed to be superior to women as a group and thus ‘entitled’ to have authority over them (See: Hearn, (1987) The Gender of Oppression, Wheatsheaf, Brighton)

2) DELIMITATION of SPACE - Where 'spaces' are marked out and thus a boundary is created- which includes those that know and excludes those that don't know (See: Smith, N. (1993) Homeless/global: Scaling Places. In, John Bird, et al. (eds.), Mapping the Futures: Local Cultures, Global Change, Routledge)

3) BONDING because of SECRETS: Research into males who belong to secret societies are spaces that allow for male affiliation and the secret becomes the factor that allows them to bond around. (See: Tiger, L. (1984) Men in groups)


I find this work fascinating and can't wait to research into this further (How many university students can say that!)

Dave
David
magicfish
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Quote:
On 2006-05-23 05:46, Whit Haydn wrote:
If the domination were "natural"--e.g. that men were more gifted for magic than women--then it would just be what it is. Like male domination of heavyweight boxing.

But there is no natural reason for women not to enjoy and excel at magic. When given the opportunity, many have.

But for many years, men have intentionally kept women out of the "outer" (much less the "inner") circles of magic.

Why should there be one manip act, one illusionist, one talking comedy act and one female act on a magic convention bill? As if female magician were a category...

I'll have to disagree with you , Whit.
There is a natural reason.
Magicians are men. They wear gloves and top hats and they make poofs of smoke and make things float. They can shoot things from their fingertips!
These are all very masculine images. when a female bills herself as a magician it is much less believable

Now I have seen some female magicians who are quite good. Tina Lennart's act with the mop is very cute. However, no woman will ever match the publicity of Houdini, the suaveness of Channing Pollack, or the skill of Slydini.

Yes there are some great illusionists out there who have mediocre skill, but all in all, as Darwin Ortiz writes, there is no substitute for genuine skill.
Subsequently, men have the edge from a technical standpoint.
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