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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Men Only!!! (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Josh the Superfluous
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I notice the amount of women who comment on a thread labeled "Men Only!!!" has increased in recent times. Maybe this marks a shift in gender dominance.
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Suzanne
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Hey David,

Were you really looking for answers to your questions? Or where you just trying to stir stuff up? Where you just seeing if you could draw women magicians out to post on your exclusive/discriminatory thread? (which BTW illustrates the issues that some women have to deal with in this "male-dominated-art") So what do ya say? You gonna talk to me or were you just being a troll?

Suzanne
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magicelam
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I've never heard women complain about magic being "male-dominated"...

I've booked the talent for the Twin City Magic Convention the last three years, and we've booked female entertainers every year... and no complaints!

And they usually get a little more applause than the guys Smile
Mike
Suzanne
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Yeah Magicelam! Exactly! So I'm wondering what David (dpe666) was talking about when he posted his original questions. I sure wish he'd post back and answer my questions. I think this could be an interesting topic if only we knew where he was coming from on it.

Maybe he doesn't really care about getting comments on his questions. Maybe he just wanted to vent. Oh well.

Suzanne
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Chessmann
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Suzanne,

If you really want an answer, why not PM David and let him know you responded to the thread he started? It is possible he has not visited the Café (or perhaps, this area of the Café) for whatever reason. I see that you are new, so if you were not aware of it you can click on the "pm" icon at the top of one of his posts in order to write him a private message (pm).

Mark
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Suzanne
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Hi Mark,

Thanks for the PM info. I'm older than I look. Smile I think I'm member 73 or something like that. I just don't post very often.

I'm actually trying to make a point. It appears to me that David walked into a room, asked a controversial question, watched the room explode, became bored with the topic, and then left. The two posts he made on this 12 page controversial thread were within 24 hours of each other. If he really wanted an answer to his post, he would have been watching the thread. Hence my comment:


Quote:
On 2006-06-22 12:57, Suzanne wrote:
Maybe he doesn't really care about getting comments on his questions. Maybe he just wanted to vent. Oh well.


I was hoping to draw him out and have a meaningful conversation with him about HIS topic but I'm not interested in chasing him through the house.

Suzanne
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JAlenS
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I just saw this topic so please excuse my tardiness. My 14 year old daughter has amazing, almost natural, sleight of hand ability. I showed her the paddle move and she had it down flat in ten minutes. Cards manipulations look better when she does them too. Who knows maybe she'll be posting here at the magic Café teaching us something.

I don't know what all this is about anyway. I enjoy watching a female magician just as much or more than a male.
Craig Peterson
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There are lots of different tangents going on this thread, but I thought I would address the original again for a moment: Why do there seem to be more women than men in magic?

That is complicated, obviously. One overarching reason is certainly that men were traditionally the only magicians in the beginning, as several posters have mentioned. Society has some of that inbred for sure.

On the other hand, the same question has been asked about engineering. Why are there so few women. It isn't that women can't be excellent engineers or that they are excluded (quite the opposite actually - a woman engineer can practically write her own ticket).

I think it is worth noticing that women are different from men (if you haven't picked up on this yet, you truly are lost). That is the reason that women love Jane Austen and men love Star Wars. Are there exceptions? Sure, lots of them, but the generalization is true. Women and men have different likes and dislikes as a whole whether you are talking about picking out drapery or fishing lures. There is a reason stereotypes develop.

Perhaps the reason we see fewer women in magic is that it appeals more generally to the male psyche. Women on the other hand tend to dominate in other artistic areas numberwise (look at the gender ratio in most schools of music for example).

This is the reason as well, I presume, that there are fewer women engineers and more women elementary school teachers. And it's ok as long as no gender is forbidden from entering any field or looked down upon for doing so. Men and women are different, so why worry about it when those differences come through?
Bill Palmer
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I suppose the magic clubs in Houston are an exception to the rule when it comes to membership. There are several female members of both the IBM ring and the SAM assembly. The SYM group here also has several female members. We are not specifically targeting female members, or "trolling" for them, but we certainly are not discouraging women or girls from joining. We encourage all who have an interest in magic to become members.

We also encourage all to perform at meetings. A couple of months back, we had a contest to see who could come up with the most original revelation of a playing card. It was a tie between a professional magician, who worked out a very elaborate thing with a triple coincidence, and a 12 year old girl who found a signed card in a package of baloney.

Duplicate prizes were awarded.

Regarding close-up skills -- one of our female members has been attending 4F for a couple of years now. She's also a member of the Academy of Magical Arts and a member of the Magic Circle of London (AIMC with silver star, to be exact.)

Magic is changing. 20 years ago, she couldn't have joined the Magic Circle. Now there are many female members, of ALL ranks!

There were plenty of female magicians on the Centenary show.

I do remember when female magicians were more of a novelty. I had a big crush on Celeste Evans!

If there ever was a concerted effort to keep women out of magic, there isn't one now.

But we should not artificially increase the numbers by coercing people to become magicians. That's simply not good for anyone.

I'll agree with magicfish that some of the best magicians I have ever seen were men. So were most of the worst ones.
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magicfish
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Ha Ha.. good one Bill.
BlackShadow
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I think sleight of hand magic suits those with an obsessive personality. There are more males with that inclination on average. But, that's not the only aspect of magic or to say that many females aren't obessesive too. I'd say the floor is open to anyone who wants to perform and today that does mean anyone.
Chrystal
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Hi,

I've been absent from the forum for awhile.. I was busy doing home reno's and working with power tools.Okay now who wanted the rose colored glasses? Margaret, Vinny..anyone else?

Chrystal
Bill Palmer
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You and Joanne Liebeler!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Lee Darrow
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Quote:
On 2006-05-26 15:51, magicfish wrote:
I don't believe you Whit. I think that you are just saying that to grasp at straws.

I'm willing to bet that you would rather pay to see Dunninger than those two. I could be wrong. Sounds like you'll go to the end of the earth to be politically correct.

Try to be objective. You are well known in the magic community. Unfortunately, your inability to admit obvious truths is starting to get a little embarrassing.

I love women entertainers of all kind, Whit. And I think there is room for women in all aspects of art. And if it happens one day that a women can work a deck like Ortiz or Miller or Vernon or Diaconis. I want to be front row centre.

Until then, let's be honest with ourselves and each other.

Sincerely, Magicfish


Then I guess you never saw June Horowitz perform at the card table. She could, and did, stand her ground with any of the greats and, according to Vernon himself, was "one of the finest card magicians I've ever seen." Scarne and Dr. Daley all agreed, as did Marlo.

I never saw you in the front row when she performed, but Michigan is probably a long way for you to travel. Especially as she was always at Abbott's for the Get-Togethers and was usually at the national SAM conventions and IBM conventions from the 40's through the early 80's if memory serves.

And, if I recall correctly, didn't a woman win at FISM this time out in one of the manipulative categories as well? I've been on the road so much, I haven't had much time to keep up.

And there was Dell O'Dell and a load of others, too. In fact, Francis Marshall wrote a wonderful book about women in magic that you might want to get and take a look at. And it's not about assistants, either, but performing magicians. Magic, Inc. still has a few copies. Give them a call. After 2PM, daily.

And no, I don't work for them and I'm not related. Smile

Lee Darrow, C.H.
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<BR>"Because NICE Matters!"
Margarette
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Quote:
On 2006-08-19 04:51, Chrystal wrote:
Hi,

I've been absent from the forum for awhile.. I was busy doing home reno's and working with power tools.Okay now who wanted the rose colored glasses? Margaret, Vinny..anyone else?

Chrystal


I'll take the glasses, now, Chrystal! I think they'd match my hardhat that I'm required to wear at the jobsite.

Margarette
The only stupid question is the one not asked.
RandyStewart
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Quote:
On 2006-08-11 13:33, JAlenS wrote:
I just saw this topic so please excuse my tardiness. My 14 year old daughter has amazing, almost natural, sleight of hand ability. I showed her the paddle move and she had it down flat in ten minutes. Cards manipulations look better when she does them too. Who knows maybe she'll be posting here at the magic Café teaching us something.


That would be nice for a change.

Chrystal, I think you look lovely in the rose-colored glasses. Where's your Janis Joplin hat! Gotta get the look just right. Smile
magicfish
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Quote:
On 2006-08-23 03:27, Lee Darrow wrote:
Quote:
On 2006-05-26 15:51, magicfish wrote:
I don't believe you Whit. I think that you are just saying that to grasp at straws.

I'm willing to bet that you would rather pay to see Dunninger than those two. I could be wrong. Sounds like you'll go to the end of the earth to be politically correct.

Try to be objective. You are well known in the magic community. Unfortunately, your inability to admit obvious truths is starting to get a little embarrassing.

I love women entertainers of all kind, Whit. And I think there is room for women in all aspects of art. And if it happens one day that a women can work a deck like Ortiz or Miller or Vernon or Diaconis. I want to be front row centre.

Until then, let's be honest with ourselves and each other.

Sincerely, Magicfish


Then I guess you never saw June Horowitz perform at the card table. She could, and did, stand her ground with any of the greats and, according to Vernon himself, was "one of the finest card magicians I've ever seen." Scarne and Dr. Daley all agreed, as did Marlo.

I never saw you in the front row when she performed, but Michigan is probably a long way for you to travel. Especially as she was always at Abbott's for the Get-Togethers and was usually at the national SAM conventions and IBM conventions from the 40's through the early 80's if memory serves.

And, if I recall correctly, didn't a woman win at FISM this time out in one of the manipulative categories as well? I've been on the road so much, I haven't had much time to keep up.

And there was Dell O'Dell and a load of others, too. In fact, Francis Marshall wrote a wonderful book about women in magic that you might want to get and take a look at. And it's not about assistants, either, but performing magicians. Magic, Inc. still has a few copies. Give them a call. After 2PM, daily.

And no, I don't work for them and I'm not related. Smile

Lee Darrow, C.H.


Thanks, Lee, yes she's very talented, but not the best; Steve Freeman is better.
Oh, and we already discussed Dell O' Dell.
magicfish
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I think there are many many wonderful female magical performers both past and present. I have seen many of the ones you mentioned in person... I have even befriended one or two. They are just not the best- that's all.
Sincerely, Magicfish
magicfish
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Oh... and I never said I met Steve Freeman... try and stay with us.
Whit Haydn
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I have not insulted anyone. Magicfish is just a name on the Internet, not a person.

When you accuse me of lying, that is differet. I am a real person, who has a wife, and daughter and friends. My reputation means something to me.

Obviously, your real reputation means something to you, or you wouldn't hide behind the fake name of Magicfish.

Magicfish is just an avatar, with no past, no family, no friends to be hurt.

If your mom and dad actually gave you that name at birth, I apologize...And they should, too.
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