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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Men Only!!! (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Aus
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Quote:
On Feb 6, 2022, Pop Haydn wrote:
What is "typical" for a boy or girl is irrelevant. "Typical" boys don't get into magic, nor do "typical" girls.


... what bases do you make that statement on Pop just out of curiosity?


Magically

Aus
Pop Haydn
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Only a small percentage of boys and girls take an interest in magic, and those that do share certain traits that make magic appealing to them that are not shared by the majority.
Aus
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2022, Pop Haydn wrote:
Only a small percentage of boys and girls take an interest in magic, and those that do share certain traits that make magic appealing to them that are not shared by the majority.


So what your acknowledging here then as it pertains to magic and broader society as a whole, there is an inequality (an imbalance as compared to something else) and not an inequity (unfairness) as to the average person's interest in magic.

If so, could it then stand to reason that if this could happen on a macro level with magic and society, it could also happen on a micro level between men and women or do all differences between men's and women's participation rates need to be zero in order for any inference of inequity to be quelled or quashed?


Magically


Aus
George Ledo
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Inequity on whose part?
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
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landmark
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It's obvious that there's an interest-in-magic gene that only exists in dominant form on the Y chromosome, which of course women lack. What else could it possibly be? And perhaps some kind of recent genetic engineering techniques might explain the relative upsurge in women magicians performing nowadays.

Another theory says it might be something in the water, but I'm not so sure that one is scientific.
Aus
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Quote:
On Jun 10, 2022, George Ledo wrote:
Inequity on whose part?


Well George much has been speculated on this multiple page thread, and unless you've been participating with your eye's closed it seems that "Men" are the precise problem and the inequity (unfairness) seems to fall at the feet of women. Danaruns has said it, Pop has said it and Suzanne has eluded to it and so have many others. I'm not going to waste time rehashing their justifications for this thinking as I'm sure if you're interested you can look back as I have done to what they have said.

What I'm more interested in is this idea that less women in magic is a result from this apparent "Men" problem and even among the lady's there seems to be a difference of opinion in the details.

Danarun for example is quoted in this as saying.....

Quote:
On Sep 2, 2017, danaruns wrote:
Well, Miistermagico, thanks for dragging this piece of trash up from the deep. After reading this, I feel like I need to take a shower to get the sexist stink off of me. At least now I know who some of the true sexists here are (magicfish, tommy) and who some of the gems are (my dear friend Whit Haydn, now Pop Haydn). It was very enlightening to see how unenlightened a number of men here are.

It's now 2017, 11 years after this thread, and we still have the same problems. I note that at MAGIC Live! last month, they opened with a talk about how important it is to be more woman inclusive in magic...and then they didn't have a single female performer all week. Not one.

Up until 1991 the Magic Circle would not admit women. That's only 15 years before this thread. The previously mentioned Magic Castle has a membership of 5,000 or so. Only about 3% are female magicians.


Yet Suzanne seems to have a more nuanced perspective on the issue in answering the question "Why is it that the fact that magic is "male-dominated" such a bad thing?" by saying...

Quote:
Jun 9, 2006 03:29 pm.

Very good question. I agree the magic community is male dominated. Which to me means just that there are more men participating in it. That, I don't see as a bad thing, it's just an "is" thing. However, the magic community can also be dominated by men. Which means to me that some men are actively trying to keep women out. That, in my opinion is a bad thing... (said in a Laura Petrie type of voice) "and if you don't know why then I'm not going to tell you!!" hehe No, actually I will tell you my feelings on it, but later.

I'm interested to hear your reply.

Suzanne


So Suzanne is making a distinction between dominance in demographics and dominance in exclusionary behavior.


So the question remains, is this an equality problem or and equity problem in terms of female representation in magic and is representation an accurate metric to measure the problem?

I mean the world we live isn't symmetrical and in fact I would say that asymmetry is the status quo, of course we can debate on the morality of such differences but many of those differences aren't motivated in a tyrannical or adversarial way. In other words correlation does not mean causation.

I'll give an example of this in an non-magical arena.

After just having a National election resulting in a change of Government in my country, the previous Government in a moment of introspective reflection felt that they loss votes by female voters because of their lack of female representatives in their political party.

Yet empirically by my observation, the few female politicians they did put forward didn't seem to gain much traction with the voters ether. So where were the women of this country who compose the other major demographic of our nation and why didn't they band together in the name of sisterhood and remedy this perceived injustice?

Because the metric wasn't genitalia it was public policy.


[quote]
Quote:
On Jun 7, 2006, Whit Haydn wrote:
The question is, WHY are more boys attracted to magic than girls?

Some are suggesting that it is a genetic predisposition, and others are claiming it is simply a result of cultural conditioning. Anyone who claims to have the answer to this is blowing smoke and merely making stereotyping comments.



Now others have proposed other possible reasons but it seems that the more ideological and less exploratory among us just want to rubbish any other idea as blowing smoke and stereotyping so they don't have to give any intellectual thought and discussion to them.

So expecting discourse to run along the rules of being attentive, open minded and persuaded by facts by those presenting information in goodwill, rather than trying to manipulate them to score political points, is going to be a complete waste of time, and that goes for both sides.


Magically


Aus
Pop Haydn
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Thanks, Aus. I guess that settles everything...
Aus
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Quote:
On Jun 12, 2022, Pop Haydn wrote:
Thanks, Aus. I guess that settles everything...



Thanks Pop, for proving my point.
George Ledo
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Yup, waste of time is right.
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Australia is a man’s world. Or so a woman told me who had lived over there for a few years. She meant sports, beer and all that man cave stuff. For her, it was a waste of time but her fella loved it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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