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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » Kovari's Turbo Bunny vs. Run Wolf Run (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Marvello
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Quote:
On 2006-06-07 18:34, Potty the Pirate wrote:
I can promise you his show is almost certainly STONKING!

STONKING? Is this a typo or a new slang word I am unaware of?
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
rogueclown
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Thanks Potty!! I appreciate your kind words!!! ( STONKING!!)
Hey Danny, I was on the Red Unit from 1999 until 2001. Ask around. I was also a United States Marine from 1993 to 1997 and YES I got out Honorably. I have been around the Country and a few places around the World too. I eat fire, juggle 5 balls, and perform Magic for Families and I am confident in my abilities. I don’t recall ever writing that I had a great show. So, If you think that I am not telling the truth why don’t you pm me so I can tell you exactly what I have done and how I feel about you in private.
RC
I still would buy Run Wolf Run over Turbo Bunny. BUT, If Wolf's Magic was not around, and then I would probably hit the streets with my Gazzo Cups and just make some fat hats. LOL!!
NJJ
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On 2006-06-07 18:34, Potty the Pirate wrote:
Phillip, I think your routine sounds great, I still don't see it affects the fact that RRR is a classic of kids' magic, though.


I am going to stick my neck out and say that whilst RRR is a classic piece of entertainment used by magicians it is not a classic piece of magic. It gets the screams and giggles (as it should) but I don't see a lot of great magic there.

Routines such as Phillip suggested are a great example of a routine that uses the same basic concept as RRR (children see something that magician does not in a repeated action) but also with strong magical content. (the vanish of the silk).

Magic should not be sacrificed for entertainment and entertainment should not be sacrificed for the sake of magic. There is no need to 'find a balance' as the two are not opposites. Routines can be magic AND entertaining
Marvello
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Ok- I found out what stonking means. interesting word Smile
Never criticize someone else until you have walked a mile in their shoes. Then, when you do criticize them, you will be a mile away from them and you will have their shoes.
Danny Hustle
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On 2006-06-07 18:34, Potty the Pirate wrote:

Danny Hustle, what are you going on about? What's the point of speculating that maybe his show isn't that great? We're here to share ideas, not for one-upmanship (or have I missed something?)



My point was, and you all seemed to have missed it, RC and Chance both had a poke at Phillip by insinuating how great their shows were (and because of that, their opinion was much more qualified than Phillips). Re-read the thread.

I was not trying to one up anyone. I just think that if you are going to have a pop at someone by saying how great your show is you should be willing to back it up. If you can't, well you shouldn't be bragging. It had nothing to do with Chance's props and I think this is the third or fourth time I've said that as well.

I am not angry, trying to be a wise guy, or anything else. I do think if you are going to make comments like, "Wow, I have to say that you guys come from a strange land that I am not familiar with." and "I have always had the most satisfied clients/parents after seeing the reaction of the kids screaming,laughing and having FUN. And I mean SCREAMING at times. The parents always say the same thing 'Wow, they had SO MUCH FUN!'" and "P.b.jones,
Do you also make magic? I looked at your website, It was hard to figure out if you build props too. I would love a link of your show. I always try to see what other performers are doing out there so that I can be sure that what I am doing is the best show that families can watch. Oh, by the way, you must have watched that video a lot. Where you thinking of using it in your show? I know that you have done your act for awhile, but change is good. It is an AWESOME prop!!!! Even you may be able to appreciate the hard work that Wolf's Magic has put into their props....DO YOU have any of Wolf's Magic or you just like tearing peoples work apart? It sounds like you need a hug p.b..OH, now back to the topic...I prefer Run Wolf Run to Turbo Bunny....HEY p.b. do you have Turbo Bunny?"

I think if you are going to post stuff like that you should pony up. Nobody jumped on RC when he asked for a clip of Phillip's show. Why is what I said so insulting to some people?

You are right, about the one oneupmanship but that wasn't my idea. Since it was brought up by others I didn't see them ponying up clips of their shows and I would love to see them.

I thought this was a very interesting discussion until some people started slinging at others for no reason. Since the thread turned into a big leg wetting contest I that the guys making water should pony up.

Like I said, I'm not angry, trying to be insulting, or anything else. I certainly do not have a problem with anyone in this thread. I'd love to see the discussion go back on track. Sometimes just holding up a mirror will do that. It doesn't seem so in this case. Maybe somebody should start another thread "Big talented performers versus big colorful props."

BTW Chance Wolf's products are top shelf and those who own them should be thrilled to have such high quality props. I think it is the third or fourth time I've said that as well.

I hope that clears it up.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
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Danny Hustle
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[quote]On 2006-06-07 19:33, rogueclown wrote:

Quote:
I eat fire, juggle 5 balls, and perform Magic for Families and I am confident in my abilities.


Like I said, I'd love to see some video.

Quote:
I was also a United States Marine from 1993 to 1997 and YES I got out Honorably.


What does that have to do with the topic at hand?

Quote:
I would probably hit the streets with my Gazzo Cups and just make some fat hats. LOL!!

What is that suppose to mean? Why don't you P.M. with the answer to that one if it was some type of an attempt to be clever.


For the record Eddie, I did ask around about you. Sounds like you need a hug LOL!!!

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Danny Hustle
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[quote]On 2006-06-07 19:42, Nicholas J. Johnson wrote:
Quote:
Magic should not be sacrificed for entertainment and entertainment should not be sacrificed for the sake of magic. There is no need to 'find a balance' as the two are not opposites. Routines can be magic AND entertaining


Nick,

This is a great post. Perhaps we should start another thread. This one has taken more off topic turns than it should have at this point I'm afraid. I think the original thread was a comparison to the bunny and the wolf.

Tons of great information in this thread unfortunately most of it is waaay off topic.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2006-06-07 19:33, rogueclown wrote:

Hey Danny, why don’t you pm me so I can tell you exactly what I have done and how I feel about you in private.
RC



Er.. Hmm.. Gee Eddie, I'm flattered really, but I'm a married man. Smile

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
The Great Smartini
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I'm going to take my Turbo Bunny and Run Wolf Run outta here with all this magicians helping magicians. Let's all grab a beer or coffee or whatever it is that one needs to relax.
p.b.jones
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Danny Hustle, what are you going on about? Do you really think RC can't put on a show that can get the kids going? He owns loads of Chance Wolf props, and I can promise you his show is almost certainly STONKING! If Wolf props weren't working for him, then he wouldn't have so many,

Hi,
Sorry Doug but you seem to make way too many assumtions based on little hard fact. his show is almost certianly good why? because he buys expensive props? (it might be good I don't know) but you certianly seem to be stuck on the mindset that props maketh the magicain. I have nothing against props but to me they are just a tool yes having a good set of tools is good but by no means ensures success you can give me an expensive set of paint brushes and a canvas but I assure you a rembrant I will not produce!

"Phillip, I think your routine sounds great, I still don't see it affects the fact that RRR is a classic of kids' magic"

By classic you mean? lots of magicians perform it and that's fine but then most magicians are happy to just follow the flock , make an easy buck.it does not make it the best ever or one of the best ever just the easy route! I have explained just one way to use the RRR good qualities and adapt them to a solid MAGICAL routine. there are many people out there smarter and more creative than myself who I am sure have other ways.
some one said on a thread here that a close up guy said he was not a proper magician because he just worked for kids now I am not going to argue for or agianst that ,but in my opinion one of the main reasons that childrens magic is held in such low regard amongst other magicians and magic regarded as "FOR KIDS " amongst adults is because too many childrens magicains have it in there head that the actual impact of the magic in there show is not important. going back to Ken Brookes comparison to a car trip where he said something like "Its the whole journey that makes a trip fun not just getting there" but to me at least "however fun the journey is its always better if the final destination is great too!"
Phillip
BIlly James
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On 2006-06-07 06:34, p.b.jones wrote:
This is an very rough outline I am not giving method or patter here. (the perfomer is wearing a jacket.)

The magician shows a red silk in his right hand, his left hand is shown empty, holding his hands wide apart he explains that the red silk is going to vannish and reapear in his left hand, using just the right hand the silk is fed into his fist. the body makes a bit of a wiggle and to the amusement of the audience the silk is visibly seen to run accross the opening of the jacket (in front of shirt behgned jacket) the right hand is opened to show nothing the silk is now in the left hand, this can be repeated as often as desired the silk going left to right and then back. the audience think it is going up the sleeves and accross so you finaly pull up your sleeves and perform it once more , however it vannishes completely ... only to reapapear under a childs collar or in your mouth or where ever you fancy really!

Phillip


Phillip, I've got a question about your routine with the silk zapping back and forth across your chest...when you do it do you wear a really colourful and busily patterned shirt or do you wear a white shirt?
;)
p.b.jones
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Phillip, I've got a question about your routine with the silk zapping back and forth across your chest...when you do it do you wear a really colourful and busily patterned shirt or do you wear a white shirt?


I like that that's funny!
phillip
Potty the Pirate
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Maybe my idea of a "Classic" is different to some folks. By "Classic" I mean something that has stood the test of time, that worked decades ago, and still works today. An idea that has been copied, repeated, and improved countless times. It seems to me that most of you guys criticising the RRR plot don't know how to make such an item work. I agree that Phillip's "bare hand" silk version sounds great. I highly recommend entertainers (even non-magicians) to include lots of magic in their shows, but it's the routining and connection with the audience that makes the show. Some of Sean Bogunia's items would likely improve Phillip's handling of "Run Hanky Run" even more. I have a coat with heaps of pockets on it, if I performed this routine, I would also have the hanks popping up and down from lots of these. Even so, I would still make up a "stupid story" and give the silks names and a personality. The routine seems to be exactly the same plot as RRR, but as has been stated, more magical.
Rather than assume that RC's show isn't all it might be, can we not just give him the benefit of the doubt? Too much space is given on these threads to folks trying to needle others. My opinion is that RC and Chance Wolf were just reacting to some unsupported comments. Now we have a bit more information, we can grasp what is being suggested.
I know that if a performer is using Chance Wolf's props, he'd have to be appallingly bad if his shows weren't a big success, the routines are so strong. Just my opinion, and yes, I do think that professional looking props and routines elevate a show, of course they are only one element, but to assume that a show which is all "magic" and no props is superior is to miss the point.
Entertainment is what it's all about, and there are plenty of magicians who can demonstrate amazing sleight-of-hand, yet fail to engage their audience. I offer to entertain ANY group, regardless of age, size of audience, or nationality. I have a large selection of material to draw from and put together the most appropriate show for any given booking. This means constantly developing new material, frequently performing "new" shows, and investing in new props and effects from the marketplace.
I believe to be the best I can, I should gather together the best, most entertaing material I can. I really don't like "Is This The Way to Amarillo", but the kids all do, since it's been a hit recently in the UK. So, one day I learned the song and regularly perform it for kids, because they love it so. It's not strictly "magic", but it adds another dimension to my performance. Silly songs, like "stupid" stories, are very popular with kids, and it's quite possible to sing, dance, play the guitar, AND do magic at the same time!
The "quality" of magic IS important, but so is the quality of the routine, and of the performer. As I've hinted in this thread, there are ways to make RWR more magical, and I agree I think that could be a good thing. But ultimately, it's about what works for any given performer. If you can't make RWR work for you as supplied, I think there must be a big gap in your ability to connect with your audience. Imagine how great a bare-handed RRR effect would be if performed by a magician who can also get maximum mileage from a prop version.
rogueclown
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Danny. I took everything you said the wrong way. I am done with this post also. It's not worth the time or energy. I will let you know when I get some footage on my website. Until then. I hope your hat never goes empty.
RC
p.b.jones
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If I performed this routine, I would also have the hanks popping up and down from lots of these. Even so, I would still make up a "stupid story" and give the silks names and a personality. The routine seems to be exactly the same plot as RRR, but as has been stated, more magical.


Hi,
The popping up from different pockets ect is something that I considered However, I decided that would actualy weaken the effect, As soon as I start letting the hank do to much it takes from the finali as they then know that they havent seen something they should'nt , the effect becomes an animated hank. I am lookinhg for clarity of effect. as Dia Vernon said confusion is not magic.


"but it's the routining and connection with the audience that makes the show. "

Hi this is the reverse of what you said above

quote"He owns loads of Chance Wolf props, and I can promise you his show is almost certainly STONKING!"

which implies the props are what matter.

anyway I wont be posting till late monday now as I am off to silverstone for the Britsh Grand Prix


Phillip
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Lucky you, Phillip. I have a weekend of kids shows, ho hum....hope you enjoy the racing. You clearly failed to get the inference that Wolf's Magic provide props that in themselves help to build audience connection, and ready-to-go routines. And that performers who have quality images such as RCs and work five shows in a weekend are getting it right. Anyway, the question is SO irrelevant! RC says the prop works for him, I believe he's telling the truth.
There are many magicians who have a fabulous kids' show or two. This is different to specialised kids' entertainers such as myself. I'll let you work out the difference for yourself. Your shows work for you, fine. But why criticise others' shows, and props that you've never seen? Why not say "I have a bare hand version of the RRR plot that works really great, for those of you who can't afford a new prop, or who would rather work the effect this way". The plot has the same story, yours is "better" because it's more magical? Far too subjective for me, let the audience decide.....
Danny Hustle
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On 2006-06-08 05:00, rogueclown wrote:
Danny. I took everything you said the wrong way. I am done with this post also. It's not worth the time or energy. I will let you know when I get some footage on my website. Until then. I hope your hat never goes empty.
RC


Thanks Eddie, and I hope you always twist more balloons than Chubby Checker.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Danny Hustle
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Quote:
On 2006-06-08 06:50, Potty the Pirate wrote:
Lucky you, Phillip. I have a weekend of kids shows, ho hum....hope you enjoy the racing. You clearly failed to get the inference that Wolf's Magic provide props that in themselves help to build audience connection, and ready-to-go routines.


This is pretty much what Phillip offered and that was his basis for using the strengths of these classic bits in another trick. I am pretty sure that what he was saying is while this is an excellent prop it won't make you a good performer. It is just a tool. They are excellent props, no one is arguing this.

Quote:

And that performers who have quality images such as RCs and work five shows in a weekend are getting it right.



I do not think that having good pictures and working a lot is a strong criteria for judging someones show. I think seeing their show is. There are a lot of hacks who have good pictures and work a lot of shows. This is not any comment on RC in any way. He may have an excellent show and I would love to see it. My comment is directed at the criteria for judging a show.

Quote:
Anyway, the question is SO irrelevant! RC says the prop works for him, I believe he's telling the truth.


Nobody said he wasn't telling the truth. Where is this coming from?

Quote:
There are many magicians who have a fabulous kids' show or two. This is different to specialised kids' entertainers such as myself. I'll let you work out the difference for yourself. Your shows work for you, fine. But why criticise others' shows, and props that you've never seen? Why not say "I have a bare hand version of the RRR plot that works really great, for those of you who can't afford a new prop, or who would rather work the effect this way".


re-reading Phillip's post that looks to me just about what he did say. I did not see him criticize anyone.

Quote:
The plot has the same story, yours is "better" because it's more magical? Far too subjective for me, let the audience decide.....


I don't recall him ever saying it was better. He did say it seemed a bit more magical TO HIM. Bottom line is we should all be looking for what works for us. Nobody has said anything bad about Chance's props. I think we are all in agreement that they are excellent. Where the conversation seems to have taken a left turn was where the question of performance came in and some folks some how saw this as a slam at RWR. No one in this thread has had anything bad to say about that prop that I can see.

Phillip seemed to be merely offering an alternative to explore the performing aspects of this as well as many other routines that rely on the same time tested principals.

Best,

Dan-
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"MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm
©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved.
Potty the Pirate
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There is too much waffle, folks HAVE claimed that the effect is weak, but who cares, not enough creative thinking is going on! On the original subject, I plan to compare the two props soon. Also even though this isn't quite the right thread, after all the debate, I have come up with some more ideas for RWR. Thanks to Phillip for getting me on that track of thinking. This working would mean quite a lot of initial preparation, and "RSE" takes some time to set, though "Professor Cheer" offers a harness version I believe. ALTERNATIVE “MAGICAL” ENDING FOR RWR:
(Some additional Wolves could be required, possibly Chance could offer a “head only” Wolf cutout, just half the prop, down to the shorts - designed to work as a “pop up”?) After Wolf vanishes from Coop:
The Wolf starts to pop up and down from your jacket side pocket, you don’t notice him. Finally with the kids’ help you catch him, and suggest he might make a nice pet. You tie a piece of rope around his middle, and put him in a “cage” (a suitable changing prop such as a mirror box would do). You proceed with the next effect, a quick trick, after which the Wolf again pops up from your jacket pocket. Assuring the kids that the Wolf is still in the cage, you open it to find….the Wolf has gone. Only the piece of rope remains. You reach into the cage, and a squeak tells that your hand has got bitten. You reach in again, and this time SNAP! You pull your hand out in agony, and hop around. A mousetrap is on your finger! You carefully take out the rope, claiming that the Wolf IS still there, it’s just that he’s gone invisible…….you hold the rope in your right hand, and suddenly it leaps through the air to your left hand (reel). Then, in an instant the rope vanishes from your left hand and reappears in your right hand (same reel/palmed “RSE*” rope). You now pull on the rope, and it gets longer and longer and longer. You proceed to perform “Rope Springs Eternal*” with ropes coming down arms and legs everywhere! For all this attrition you blame the Wolf. He must be at the end of the rope, no? Finally, at the end of the rope you are pulling from your trouser leg, you pull out the Wolf’s shorts!
You could now go into your favourite rope routine, later in the show a Wolf puppet could make an appearance, or the Chicken Bucket could make a great follow-on effect.
As the Wolf is now a pet, it means you have a running gag, as the Wolf can pop up and down from your jacket pocket whenever you like.
p.b.jones
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Lucky you, Phillip. I have a weekend of kids shows, ho hum....hope you enjoy the racing. You clearly failed to get the inference that Wolf's Magic provide props that in themselves help to build audience connection

HI,
Thanks, the Grand Prix was great had a tour of the Renault pits (not just a lane walkabout but right into the pits and all around the back area), met Fisichella and alonzo I watched the racing from the BRDC club house, I also introduced to Patricia Mclaren (Bruce Mclaren's widow)and we had a very pleasant lunch together.

no point in killing yourself working to hard is there Smile

I did see you inference as you put it but personaly think that if the props are well made clean and tidy that is sufficient , I personaly want to sell myself not eye candy.


"Your shows work for you, fine. But why criticise others' shows, and props that you've never seen? Why not say "I have a bare hand version of the RRR plot that works really great, for those of you who can't afford a new prop, or who would rather work the effect this way"

Hi,
I never critised anyones show ?

phillip
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