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imagine New user oxfordshire 69 Posts 
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Hey people, havn't posted for a long time,
I was wondering how you present your magic to appear real while still putting the message across effectively that you don't have powers, etc. I've noticed with Derren Brown that he puts it across as vary of psychology, misdirection, suggestion etc |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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I think if you tell them your a magician or an illusionist that just about covers it and don't tell them it is real magic or not.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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To quote Max Maven, "At the end of Hamlet, the actors aren't obliged to stand up and tell the audience that they aren't realy dead."
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-26 13:28, JackScratch wrote: I wonder how it would go if instead of taking a bow and curtain call, after the final speaches and the end of the play, the supposedly deceased cast were instead dragged out and put onto a larger pile of bodies next to the stage?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts
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It'd probably be more dramatic than the production itself!
POOF!
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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It would be talked about back in town...
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts
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Richiardi-type finishes??
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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RandyStewart Inner circle Texas (USA) 1989 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-26 13:32, Jonathan Townsend wrote: For a good chunk of Generation X it would be 'fashionable' to show up late but just in time for the 'piling of the bodies'. |
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts
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"Bring out yer dead!"
POOF!
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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This could help a great deal. Currently, 80% of Equity is out of work at any given moment. This could help make room for more of the younger actors.
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-26 13:28, JackScratch wrote: Which is, of course, the rather obvious difference between magic and acting vis a vis, "the lie": At the end of Hamlet, the audience knows the actors are still alive. At the end of an ambitious card sequence, after you show a double, the audience believes, incorrectly, that the chosen card was placed into the center of the deck, and THEN "something magical" happened.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts
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When coming on and hearing someone in the audience say "there's the magician" I stop and tell the audience they are the magicians, I'm just a guy doing illusions and the magic doesn't happen until they are part of it
It it wasn't for the audience I'd just be a guy standing there doing weird stuff Kind of like a comedian at home practicing jokes in the mirror, where's the funny in that?
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-26 21:39, LobowolfXXX wrote: That is as incorrect a statement as I have ever heard. The difference between magic and acting is magic. That's the only difference. Sorry to mess up an oportunity to forward your agenda, again, but you've missed my point, and the point Max Maven was trying to make. The worst part is you keep waffling between magic being real and not as well as magic being a lie and not. Magic is like acting, only with magic, so it's not acting. Magic is like a lie, only you told them you're lying, so it's not a lie. |
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imagine New user oxfordshire 69 Posts
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What I'm trying to get across is that say you present it in a religious, astrological, supernatural type way don't you have to be careful that you don't make them believe or re-inforce what their seeing as real?
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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts
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Depending on which country you're in... yes and no.
POOF!
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts
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Quote:
On 2006-05-27 03:11, JackScratch wrote: Which part do you dispute: That the audience doesn't really think the actor who portrayed Hamlet is dead, or that the audience really does think that their card went, fairly, into the middle of the deck? Acting works just fine if you know that the actor isn't dead. Magic falls flat on its tail if the audience knows that it was an indifferent card that really went into the center. The fact that the audience knows that they'll be deceived doesn't alter the fact that they are being deceived, and that they are buying parts of the deception. Nor that their buying it is critical. If I tell you, "Hey, I'm going to make 4 statements to you, and 2 of them will be lies." Then say 1. My middle name is Frederick. 2. My middle name is Franklin. 3. My birthday is in July. 4. My birthday is in August. Even though I've been honest about the fact that 2 of the statements are false, I've still lied to you. By mixing in true statements with false ones, I've maintained the deception. If I said, "I'm going to tell you something that's not true," and then say, "My name is Bob," then I would probably agree with you. That's not a lie, because I don't intend to deceieve you. But the combination of true statements with false ones means that any individual statement may be true or false, and the magician does intend that the audience perceive some of the false one as true. That means there's an intent to deceive, and that's a lie.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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imagine New user oxfordshire 69 Posts
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So to be ethical we have to put across that were deceiving them if not by telling them then at least by the performance its self
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts
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No, to be ethical you have to bill yourself as a "magician", or some other variety of magic specialist (eg Mentalist)
imagine - Here in the US, not at all. Our society knows what a magician is, that's part of the deal. They understand what is going on, and what we do. That's why they came to see us in the first place. Dan - I dispute that they know both and do not know both equaly. I dispute that they very question in their minds is what makes each craft work as intended. I dispute that this is the very nature of both arts. You are carefuly avoiding understanding the issue here. That issue is that the audience has a complete understanding of what it is we do. If nothing else they know that the same card can not exist both in the center of the deck and on the top, that along with being told we are magicians, what they know is that they came to see magic, and they understand what magic is. There is not deception there. Again, no more so that the dead actor, or the exploding DeathStar. For some reason you like the sound of calling magicians liars. You seem to think it clever. I'm done trying to change your mind, there are inherent aspects to the nature of these crafts that you refuse to recognise, and that being said, nothing is going to change your mind. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts
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By virtue of telling them up front that you are a magician/illusionist you are telling then what you are about do is fiction. Fiction: An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented. If they choose not to believe it is fiction and choose instead that it is fact, what can you say, that's their problem. You can not prove to them it is fiction by showing them how it is done, can you?. At the end of a trick, the magician is not obliged to stand up and prove to the audience that it was a trick. The magician is obligated to tell them he is a magician and not to lead or tell them that what he does is real magic, because that is what a charlatan does. In acting they are obliged to tell the audience if it is a documentary or drama or whatever. That is why there is controversy over The Da Vinci Code. Said to be a work of fiction but based on historical facts! Telling them you’re a magician is like an health warning.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts
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What if the magician calls himself something else? A scientific investigator? A channeler? A psychic? A psychic surgeon?
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Posted: May 26, 2006 03:19 pm 
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