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Dannydoyle
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See not everyone can be funny ON COMMAND. yea it may be part of the human condition, but to be funny on command is a skill that has to be developed. NOT everyone is able to do it.

How many people do you know who say "I wish I had said this, or I wish I had thought of that fast enough"? That means they are not trained to be it.

As for always taking center stage, more often than not you simply become annoying.

Keep in mind, funny on stage and funny when in a bar, are 2 completly different animals.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kym Diamond
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D. Doyle - don't seem we be communicatin' too well. Smile I didn't say, "always take center stage", I stated in the situations where you have to. And, I ain't talkin' about in a bar. I'm talkin' about everyday situations where you have to be in public and be put on a stage (even if it is an invisible one) to deal with people around you.

Example - you volunteer at a festival to help out, you do crowd control...teeming masses are about to run you down in their eagerness to get through that gate or door...you can stand there like a deadbolt dolt saying, "sorry, folks, gates don't open until (insert time here)", or, you can start chatting with a group, finding out who the people are, and, start playing with them - loosening them up and getting them ready for the experience beyond...in that situation, natural lines of comedy can come out and be usable. That's the moment to study and understand what you did or said to create the laughter reaction. And, it is usually something that the people related to and found funny in their own views of life.

I have seen standup comics who think they are funny "on command" that I think absolutely suck. And, I've seen people who are funnier than schtick just by opening up and being themselves when on stage. Yup, it's a skill that needs nurturing and development.

By the way, that moment of "I wished I had said (fill in the appropriate response") - that is the moment to journal and log what you wish to have said. Keep that on-going record of those thoughts so you can compile them for future reference and know that you have the ablity to do that sort of response whenever you need it. We are trained not to smart off and be wise-acres...it takes some doing, but, we can reach the inner rapscallion and set them free when the appropriate time is with us.

And,don't forget, there are pro-comics who have made a living out of being annoying. (Whether you like them or not.) Sam Kinison, Bobcat Goldwaithe, Gilbert Gotfried - to name but three.

My point was to focus on finding your own voice and your own center of comedy that comes from within yourself. Not everyone has to pursue it as a career or engaging pastime...but, everyone has the ability to be funny (at whatever level they can best be funny at).

KD
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Dannydoyle
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Ok sure great
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kym Diamond
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Well, Danny, from reading the tone of your responses in this thread - and, as a new person here, all I can say is that, "looks like I've got a new 'special' friend..." Smile Nothing personal, but, man, you open a topic and then are curt in too many responses to people who are trying to contribute...and, if there is a legitimate conversation attempted, you cut it short with a brevity response that openly states the feeling, "I don't care"..."sigh". Gotta love them pros from Dover, don't ya. Smile

Wishing you and all the best for a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

Kd
Dannydoyle
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I simply didn't want to argue, so that makes me a bad guy?

You guys are great. Discuss and I am mean, Don't discuss and that is wrong.

Pick a horse and ride it!


Posted: Dec 19, 2006 3:01pm
--------------------------------------
Quote:
On 2006-12-18 01:26, Kym Diamond wrote:

Yep. Take the training and the courses. But, when you are out in public with folks around you and you have to take center stage for whatever reason in an impromptu setting - and you find people laughing at something you say, do, or combination there of - take note of that response, take note of what you did to receive it, then, study that aspect of your character in you...and develop outward from that.

But since you insist on a response lets start with this. When you said this you mentioned NOTHING about working festivals or other such things. Take the center stage for whatever reason in an impromptu situation.

This makes you a huge attention hound and in general a pain in the but to be around.

Also what happens is "take note of their responses, you fall into bad habits. You have no idea why they are laughing, just that they are. The skills that are necessary to be funny on a stage are 180 degrees different from being funny with your friends. Stage or performance funny is NOT the same thing, even improv. So that advice is not quite as golden as you make it out to be.

When you just tell jokes or make people laugh with no understanding of why it is happening, well how do you improve? See by some simple study you can learn what you are doing and why.

Your way all you end up with is a bunch of data and no real reliable way to put it to use. Maybe it was the setting, the delivery, or simply a tone, timing, or any number of 1000 things. So you don't get the laugh because of timing. How do you know that? You don't. Heck you don't even know it is a consideration. BUT with a little bit of time spent on study you can piece it together. You can make educated corrections.

Also not everyone can be funny. Sorry this is the same way as not everyone can sing, dance, play instruments, write, paint, draw or any other talent you wish to name.

I hope this "discussion" is what you were after.

I didn't want to point out and disagree with you as it seems as if you have kind of thin skin. I seemed to offend you by NOT answering, so now I am certain I have offended you by answering.

Tell me which you prefer so I can continue to do that one. If your going to be offended anyhow, I may as well make you the most happy.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kym Diamond
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Danny - I just started a reply and deleted it by accident. However - don't worry about my skin thickness. I'm part duck - stuff tends to roll off. In this business of entertainment, it has to. Some things might get personal, but, for the most part - no hassles.

Now, mayhaps I didn't communicate properly for you to understand what I was getting at. So, I tried to better define for your reading consumption. As for "Recording those moments when you get laughter" - man, that comes straight from several comedy workshops I've taken. What I may have not filled in was that when I journal something like, "I got a laugh tonight - man, I'm funny", but, "I got a laugh tonight, what did I do to get it? How did I manage to set it up? How did I deliver the pay off? How did I handle the delivery physically? - how do I use that in the future?"

And, it is human nature to have a sense of humor, to have artistic and musical abilities. We all do. Some more than others in the various areas. Some are more pronounced than others in specific areas. But, we each have them to a given degree. Denying that in anybody denies a part of their essential being. So, on the aspect of "not everyone can be funny", we're gonna have to agree to disagree.

I'll use an example on this. I worked several years at a theme park where an attraction based upon jungle river tours delivered by wry and witty guides was a staple of my work. We had people come to this area with no presence or apparent ability of having a sense of humor or comedic ability. After a few months, those people started finding their own voice and timing in the delivery - and, got laughs. Some more than others. And, eventually, a lot of these people started coming up with good material to plus what they were doing.

I'll also go as far to say that in that setting, when you get a new audience every ten minutes, you learn chops on getting people to laugh at material - and, how to tailor material to a changing audience on a major basis.

Now, is that a comedy club? Not at all. And, clubs are a unique place of being. I have done a couple of workshops for standup - and, seen people who start off flat with what seems no ability, only, upon completion of the workshop get their share of the laughs in their monologues. Will those people go on to be pro comics? Probably not. But, they will walk away with a better security in themselves and their ability to expand their personalities in given situations. And, know that they have the ability to be funny. People who came into the situation thinking, "I can't be funny..."

Study - in anything you are after to be better at - is the only way to advance and suceed. No question on that. If I perform and have the ability to have a video shot during my gig, I'll use that reference material to better myself from. Same with positive feedback (even if it is an honest, "Gal, you bombed tonight") I receive. (Noting that there is a difference between positive and negative feedback.)

What I responded to was an apparent tone in your responses that seems to want to negate what people are writing - and, looking back over the responses, I wasn't the only person to pick up on that. So - no biggie. I am cool with things, and, hope to better define my statements in the desire you'll garner what I mean. That's all.

Kd
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2006-12-19 15:37, Kym Diamond wrote:

Now, mayhaps I didn't communicate properly for you to understand what I was getting at. So, I tried to better define for your reading consumption. As for "Recording those moments when you get laughter" - man, that comes straight from several comedy workshops I've taken. What I may have not filled in was that when I journal something like, "I got a laugh tonight - man, I'm funny", but, "I got a laugh tonight, what did I do to get it? How did I manage to set it up? How did I deliver the pay off? How did I handle the delivery physically? - how do I use that in the future?"


This is my frustration and why in "general" it is not a great topic and I should have NEVER started it.

What you "left out" was far and away THE MOST IMPORTANT PART.

The other thing you are doing is mixing 2 claims. YOU have the workshop training. So you apply that knowlege. It is far from just going out to be the center of attention.

Again agree to disagree? Not quite. Ever meet someone who is not funny for whatever reason? If not you need to get out more. There are plenty of them. JUST as there are people with "tin ears" "no rythem" and can't express thoughts through writing.

While yes they can learn formulas for all of these skills, as well as comedy, they will never truley "have" these skills. They may know the basics, and be able to quote many many things about them, but they will never be "funny" or "good writers" or "artists" and so on.

I find it amusing when people ascribe emotions to typed words. You are guilty of it, as are many. Take out the emotion, for I am writing it without it.

I think if we read the posts, and don't "read into" posts it will be a lot easier.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kym Diamond
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Aw. c'mon. There is no mixing here. I am truly sorry if it conveyed a person needs to always a center of attention. All I wrote was, there are times when a person is called upon to be that. That's it. And, as for "leaving things out", from reading the gist of the entries in this subject, it already seemed that most of the people contributing here already grokked the point of recording and learning from it.

And, yup - agree to disagree. There is so much more in the core of human beings than such limitations as you conceive to plant upon them...and, no matter the level of achievement - they can do the things. That knowledge of being able to do something is important as the foundation of the personal level of an individual to grow outward from in whatever field of artistic development they do have their chops in.

As for taking emotion out of writing, then, there is no passion in your writing. If there is only cold hard facts, there is no content. And, if we read "into" the posts - unless it is absolutely defined what a person is stating "into", or "not into" it, that is a human quality that is going to happen. That is the same with comedy. It is the personal interpretation of the person who is experiencing the performance what they respond to. Without that level of personal emotion in the response, there would be no humor. So, suppose a comedian goes up with no emotion (okay, Steven Wright can get away with dead-pan) attached to their routine...would it be a lot easier to understand that?

Nah. It's the emotion behind anything - written or physically performed - that gives it the value, the belivability, the humor or the pathos...as well as the discussion and communication in order to expand upon ideas and grow from them...it's that emotion that makes things work.

Personal opinion, only.

Kd
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Dannydoyle
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Nobody said to not have emotion when you perform.

BUT when you ascribe non existant, or worse yet incorrect emotions to posts, you (not YOU spacifically) tend to not get the point.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kym Diamond
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Well, as I stated, upon review of the overall thread, I was not the only person with the intepretation of curt and such responses. The best thing to do, as we have done, is discuss it and see where non-existant or incorrect emotions to posts actually lay. Then better communication is achieved. Problem in written posts in countless threads on countless boards. Not just here. If one person doesn't get it, chances are, more than one won't - unless the overall gist of a thread seems to be common in a view.

That now being beaten to death by both of us... Smile

Has anyone actually studied comedy?

(looking in my big book of answers...)

Yes.

Kd
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Merry Christmas!
Dannydoyle
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You would be SHOCKED to find out how many comics on the comedy club circuit have NOT studied comedy. And how many quite sucessfull ones have.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kym Diamond
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About the same number of politicians and corporate heads who really studied the principles of human rights, I would imagine... Smile

I'm not shocked at all. Goes with the territory. Those who have lasting power, however, those who stay at the top of their craft pretty much have to. Goes without saying. (Comedians, not politicians.)
Dannydoyle
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Yea read the rules about political references here. They are frowned on as they cause too much heated debate, weather they are jokes or not.

Especially since many of us derive a large portion of our income working for those large corporations and CEO's. It can rub people the wrong way.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kym Diamond
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Re-read Café etiquette rules. Didn't say a thing about politics or corporate satire. As you know, mindless corporate and political nonsense has long been a mainstay of mainstream comedy. I'm not singling any one person out or any party out or any given corporation. People have got to laugh at themselves and have a sense of humor. I can work for a corporate giant (have, and will again, I imagine) and, don't get rubbed the wrong way when people joke about 'em.

Nothing serious here. Move along, move along. Smile

Kd
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Dannydoyle
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Yea a mainstay of mainstream comedy. Yoru absolutly right.

BUT who is doing comedy now, and why?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Kym Diamond
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Why not? Smile

Seemed we ended the discussion and the matter was let go...comedy is as comedy does. Can't be serious ALL the time.... Smile
Magicmatt1982
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I am a full time comedy Magician. That is what I do and who I am. The one thing I do is have my favorite comedians and then study them and think why do I love them so much. What is it about them that I like and I don't like. I do not by anymagic I come up with everything myself. Some of it will be on my ext DVD coming out next month. Card in cake.Look for it at you local magic dealer. (sweet litlle plug). But those are my two cents. Matthew Hampel http://www.matthampel.org
The Village Idiots
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Danny, it is wrong of you to say you shouldn't have started this thread, it is a great thread and would probably be a little stronger if it hadn't gotten off course. I just think you could learn to control your domineering, trumped up beliefs a little. Perhaps the two of you could have written your scurry to one another in p.m.'?

Sticking to the wonderful theme, I just finished "Pryor Convictions," an incredible book written by a truly funny man. Another I just finished is "I Killed"(True Stories of the road from the countries top comics), which had me laughing till I cried on the plane. In the past three weeks I also read "Naked pictures of famous people" by Jon Stewart and it was nothing like I would have expected. It is most similar to Steve Martin' "Cruel Shoes." Which the word bizarre doesn't give justice to it.

My book shelfs are lined with books about comics, comedy and comedic novels. "Harpo Speaks" is still on the top of my list. I have read it three times now.

The newest Biography about W.C. Fields (same title) will make you laugh and cry. I haven't read "Man on the flying trapeze" but have heard some of it is baseless so I read the newest one that I have been told is more true to life.

So you can take classes. You can do open mic nights. But check out Amazon for a wealth of books to teach you about the sad clowns that make us laugh.

I have plenty of time to read when in the air or on a ship so that is what I am able to do. BUT I spent many nights working a tough room at open mics. I have taken classes from people who thought they could teach comedy. But I have to agree with Woody Allen as he said in his interview with Larry Wyle (which can be purchased on CD "Woody Allen On Comedy") You can't learn to be funny. Either you are or you aren't. Some may be able to write a joke but not deliver it and some may be able to tell a joke but not write. Some have both talents. So you can study all you want and be an avid fan but if you ain't funny honey you ain't funny.

As far as being "ON." Fellow comics who are constantly looking for the punch-line wear me out. Now that may very well be because I am too. My favorite sound is laughter. For christmas my best gift was making my wife laugh till she cried when she read the coupon book I made for her as a gift.

Some good cooks are good because they love the taste of food, others are good cooks because they love to have loved ones appreciate a good meal. I'm some where in the middle when it comes to laughter.

Sillily,
Will
Some are born idiots.

Some are made idiots.

Some have idiocy thrust upon them.
Dannydoyle
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I have to say this, the books you recomend. ALL fantastic!

Often far more can be gleaned from simply the experiences of others, than dry text.

For me anyhow.

Yes I tire very quickly of comics or magicians who are always "on". It is boring.

Also mentalists who don't know when to put it away or hypnotists always trying to be spooky bother me.

It puts me in mind of that SNL bit with the cheerleaders. To me it looks about as silly.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Corona Smith
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