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Samuel Special user Norway 831 Posts |
Got into this thread by the excellent post by LeConte (the sticky), and I just want to offer my experiences, even though not as extensive as many of the others who have posted here.
Regarding the double lift, and the turnover, there are more things to consider. As have been said, laymen don't expect us to handle the cards as them, cause we handle cards much more than them. With this in mind, almost every kind of double can be passed by without suspicion. I've actually had the pinky break, then lifted the cards in biddle-grip from the break, and turning the wrist around to show the cards -- nobody ever commented on it. Btw, I don't do this anymore, cause I seek perfection in my performances, and is now on the natural double push off. To me, it's fun to practice the move - as I see the progress, and it makes me happy to know that I can do the moves without the possibility of beeing detected - cause it is invisible to the naked eye, even while burning my hands.
Samuel
Magic is everywhere |
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doowopper Elite user 492 Posts |
I'm new to Sleightgeek. Mago Mai, after I go to the link you put in your message above, how do I view your video? That page seems to have just comments about the video. Thanks.
When I do an unnatural move, I usually cover it by doing another irrelevant gesture to focus a spectator's attention on that gesture - sort of a magic wand approach. So, for example, when doing a snap double lift, I first twist my wrist slightly and say that the magic just happened. Richard |
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R.E. Byrnes Inner circle 1206 Posts |
I find that my double lift too often has horrendous slippage that reveals that there are two cards, and a similar problem arises when I do an elmsley. the concern is that the "just practice" imperative will only deepen a bad tendency; thus the search for a "pointer" to avoid the slippage problem. apparently saliva was used back when handling two cards as one was so novel that so elaborate a get-ready was tenable. now, obviously, that's not an option. and while I'm not wild about the slightly grandiose bending thing that jason england does (which he contends "sells singularity"), that's certainly one way to make the cards stay together.
I do think carney is onto something, in that there is just a little too much pageantry associated with the typical double lift; too much movement for merely showing what the top card is. (the same problem arises in packet tricks, which are often presented with a stiffness that doesn't at all resemble the relatively care-free way anyone would handle four or six or eight cards -- which is a respite from holding a full deck. yet so often I essentially signal the commencement of a packet trick by being the opposite of relaxed, and snapping into a biddle rigidity that conveys something is amiss. (there's a guy on YouTube doing some truly heinous packet counts in which he for some reason always removes the cards from the bottom. I comfort myself by at least not making that mistake.)). |
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mmstudios New user Frazeysburg,Ohio 30 Posts |
As far as double lift versus double turnover, they really arnt interchanable are they? someone said to let double drop back onto the deck without a break and show it. that leaves you with a extra face up card under the top you eventually have to deal with.
I learned my double from an old brad burt video where he uses the "get ready". ive yet to learn one without it though it certainly seems like a good idea. |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
Strike dl does not require a get ready. That's what I use.
Magic is a vanishing art.
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R.E. Byrnes Inner circle 1206 Posts |
"If you choose to eliminate all unnatural movement from your card handling then you’ll have to give up faro’s, tabled riffle shuffles, almost every thing Bro. John Hamman did, the flustration count, the Mexican turnover, everything based on the Biddle grip and just to be safe you’d better avoid the Elmsley count as well. Laymen don’t handle cards that way. All of them are unnatural by that definition."
outstanding point. like the insipid though frequently repeated slogan that "there's no such thing as a best ____," the reflexive advice to "be natural" calls for something far more difficult than merely imitating a lay person's card bumbling. |
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Dorian Rhodell Inner circle San Francisco, CA. 1633 Posts |
I find it very interesting (and revealing) that everyone is up in arms about acting natural yet NOBODY seems to have even brought up the fact that uniformity will trump naturalness in many instances. Everyone can be as natural as they want. As soon as uniformity of action is broken suspicion is aroused which means we, as magicians, no longer are in control.
Best, Dorian Rhodell |
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edh Inner circle 4698 Posts |
I would say uniformity = naturalness, wouldn't you?
Magic is a vanishing art.
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Markkuhn2 Regular user 116 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-02-28 20:46, R.E. Byrnes wrote: When a layman watches an experienced card person perform a trick, they know just by the way the magician handles the cards that they are really good at what they do. I think a layman will give you that much. It's the patter and the magician's personality that really entertains and when a layman watches a great presentation, they believe that it's natural for an experienced cardman to handle cards the way they do. A layman understands great handling, but they should have no clue what we are doing when we handle cards. |
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mmstudios New user Frazeysburg,Ohio 30 Posts |
If someone went so far as to try and be so "natural"that they looked just like the average joe on the street handeling the cards...i don't think I would be interested in watching him. you may be surprised what he is doing, but it wouldnt be entertaining. at least not to me. there should be at least some sort of mystique or aura of expertise.im not talking about making the MOVE look mysterious, but just doing it the way someone really advanced would naturally(theres that word again but in a better context) do it.natural is a subjective term. instead of thinking what "natural" might look like to a layman, or what you think a layman would perceive as natural, do waht you think would be natural for you.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-02-28 21:21, edh wrote: no I would not. not even if you added in consistency. There's something about context and imputed motivation that also seems a part of that perception of naturalness IMHO.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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TheGreatRaymondo Special user Manchester, England 969 Posts |
Brad Christian of:
http://www.ellusionist.com teaches a number of methods for performing the double lift in his instructional video 'Crash Course in Cards 1' He goes in to great depth and at length showing you every detail and nuance from differing camera angles which teaches you to get it bang on each and every time. I like Brad Christian's DVD's - a lot! His style, personality and teaching methodolgy are genuinely first class - check it out. It is worth the effort. Hope this is of use and good luck! PS. Regarding practice being boring... I learnt how to do the DL consistently after watching the above video then just practiced with a deck of cards in my hand whilst watching TV in the evening and having a beer. Just 15 - 20 minutes a night on a regualr basis makes a huge difference to both your skill level and confidence. Just try it for one week and see how you get on.
We are inclined to believe those whom we do not know because they have not yet deceived us...
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silent shadow Loyal user United Kingdom 231 Posts |
To anyone having problems with their regular DL I highly recommend you try the strike DL, turn it over like you would the page of a book with no breaks, a much more natural motion.
Jason
Magic or just an illusion? it's a free choice .... isn't it?
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts |
So many, including Whit Haydn, tell me that they use my Double Lift method that I originally taught in my ACR way back in 1962 - that book plus four others is re-written and updated, etc., in The Classic Collection, Vol. 1.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
There is a friendly warning thread on top of The workers that we seem to forget about:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=2&0
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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metaljohn Loyal user Montreal, QC 280 Posts |
Quote:
Regarding the double lift, and the turnover, there are more things to consider. As have been said, laymen don't expect us to handle the cards as them, cause we handle cards much more than them. With this in mind, almost every kind of double can be passed by without suspicion. Well said. I was about to say almost the same thing. Most laymen don't know how to handle cards. I remember from way back when I was a layman how well magicians handled cards. This is way before I knew about DLs, Glides, false shuffles, etc. Looking back, I've seen numerous DLs where I didn't know DLs were even being performed. I think lay people expect magicians to be good at handling cards so when a DL is performed, it just looks like the magician turned over the card to show it in an aesthetic way. Just my two cents. |
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Justin W Special user Lawrence, KS 929 Posts |
Quote:
On 2011-03-16 10:26, silent shadow wrote: In no way, shape, or form is the strike double a natural motion. |
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R.E. Byrnes Inner circle 1206 Posts |
Posted: Mar 16, 2011 2:42pm          Â
There is a friendly warning thread on top of The workers that we seem to forget about: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=2&0 Magic is not a performing art where people don't know how situations are reached, it's the art of showing parallel dimensions that can't be reached Very helpful; stay vigilant and keep up the great work |
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Sagar New user India 36 Posts |
After obtaining your break below the top 2 cards, square the deck up COMPLETELY, and while turning them over, pinch the cards together as firmly as possible - and practice a lot of times.
There is one force I can always - ALWAYS - rely on - gravity.
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Opine Traveler Veteran user 342 Posts |
Please do not "pinch the two cards together as firmly as possible."
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